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and good rainy monday afternoon folks

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i'm shawn the fork chop forker

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alongside lon strickler and you're

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listening to arcane radio

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on monday october the 13th

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2014 and today is going to be a good

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show for you

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uh we're going to name the winner of the

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truth is out there contest that we've

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been promoting here

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on the be on arcane radio on the

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on the program on our web page on our

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social media and the winner will be

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known here

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momentarily lon how are you doing today

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sir

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i'm doing pretty well um chasing

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raindrops just like you are it's wet

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down here too

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yeah it is but kind of sets the tone for

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october i kind of like this month to be

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cool and

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dreary and fallish i like

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i like the ambiance that we get from

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days like this yeah i'm a fall guy

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anyway

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you know i like to change the weather

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and uh you know

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my birthday's in october my birthday's

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near halloween

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i'm not really a halloween guy but uh

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and my anniversary is in october so

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there's a lot of stuff going on

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my anniversary is in october as well

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really close to halloween october 27th

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oh yeah my birthday is 28th well there

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you go see that two good things happen

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close together

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yeah those numbers folks numbers are

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everything

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in this world uh but the winner i guess

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lon will announce that the truth

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is out there contest coming from us way

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down

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is the winner of our truth is out there

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contest

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yeah alan i i know alan actually allen

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uh

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he's got his own paranormal group down

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there and uh

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i'm glad he got it it uh

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we'll go ahead and i'll ship that right

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out to him excellent and

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folks uh stay tuned for a next contest

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you'll never know or run

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maybe sometime next month i'll run a

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special contest myself here

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and see if we can get you guys some more

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paranormal goodies and lon speaking of

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paranormal goodies it's been a heck of a

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week for ufo sightings

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been a lot of ufo sightings a lot of

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interesting ufo signs yeah

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some really good visual evidence uh from

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some of these cases the one

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you and i were talking about here right

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before we came on is a story i read this

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weekend the ufo sighting over florida by

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a carnival cruise ship

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yeah that's uh that's pretty interesting

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uh it kind of looks like a drone type

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thing

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but it does the shape is different than

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what i've seen before it's more

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square now of course i'm not saying

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if it you know it may be military and

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maybe uh

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you know i don't know how big it is it's

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hard to really tell from

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from that i don't know what the

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estimated the size was

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but uh it is an interesting looking

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thing and uh

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well i have to wait and see if anybody

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else sees something similar

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yeah i think i like the video it's

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really cool looking it looks man-made to

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me i mean it doesn't look like something

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extraterrestrial

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it could be i don't know i i've never

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seen anything extraterrestrial i guess

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to compare it to

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but uh nonetheless it's still a ufo by

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definition an unidentified flying object

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but if we really want to get into ufos

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that might be of extraterrestrial origin

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then we need to go over to yulon to talk

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about these things out of clearfield

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county

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pennsylvania yeah that um and i don't

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know if that's extraterrestrial

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or not i mean that looks like these uh

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you know one of these

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triangular flying objects that

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everybody's been seeing i mean i you

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know this one's a

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tiny bit different it seems like it says

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something in the back of it but

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then again i mean and i can't tell how

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really how big it is

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but uh it was a report put through mufon

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and uh it was actually taken by ex-law

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enforcement officer

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uh he said he just happened to see it

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out of the corner of his eye and snapped

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two

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photographs on his phone it was pretty

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clear

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photograph looks like it was kind of

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maybe

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um sometime in the evening getting ready

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to turn dark i don't know it's hard to

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tell

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not much it wasn't a whole lot of

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information though i know this guy was

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in his backyard gardening and he just

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happened to see it

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these photographs look kind of vintage

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here i'm sorry i was looking at them

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quick

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even the garage door mechanism and the

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one garage photo looks uh

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uh looks retro yeah that um

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that's pretty odd you know these i don't

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know what the date somebody

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suggested these came from 1962.

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um all i know is when it was posted this

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was posted on mufon

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as well uh out of albuquerque

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new mexico and of course that area

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itself has had a lot

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of u.s activity over the years and

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there's some um

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there's some underground bases

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supposedly there as well

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and uh but anyway this this disc

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uh it's pretty similar some of the uh

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just photos that

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came out of that era um i

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like i said again i can't really tell

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how big it was

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it i don't know it's it's hard

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it's hard to describe other than saying

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it looks like a flying saucer

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and um you know going back to the

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triangular photos there that we're

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looking at

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the thing same thing about those and the

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florida photographs

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there's nothing to scale you know i

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guess that's what always makes aerial

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photos

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you know so difficult is that you know

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you can't put a ruler next to it because

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well that's not going to

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you know tell you much it's it's it's

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very difficult to get

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unless there was another sort of uh

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object in the sky to measure up to you

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can't get a

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definite size on this thing well you

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know

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the first one we were talking about that

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squarish looking thing

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since it was down it was close to the

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keys i think um

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you know that may be a spy drone coming

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back from cuba or going toward

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cuba good or something right i you know

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i just thought about that

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um i'm quite sure they do

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run drones across the island and uh

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maybe that's something maybe that's

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military

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well we could hope yeah that would make

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it a little bit more uh

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i guess it would make it a little more a

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little less mysterious and kind of give

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us some answers as to what the flying

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objects are

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you know i can only imagine what would

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happen if you remember the story a while

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back of amazon wanting to deliver

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packages via drones

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could you imagine the ufo sightings you

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know that would be going on

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if amazon start got clearance to use

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these ufo

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i thought it might have been a joke too

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but uh

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that would have been a very confusing

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time for mufon well

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the only thing i can think of people not

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getting the deliveries because somebody

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else is

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shooting it out of the sky my neighbor

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shot this thing carrying a package out

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of the sky

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you can buy these drones yeah at

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uh radio shacks and best buys now these

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uh we saw one for about 300 bucks lon

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it's radio controlled you can fly it up

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in the sky for a little bit

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and if you're not and and doctor one of

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those things up a little bit

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you could make some pretty uh pretty fun

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home videos

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out of those so i guess it's time we

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start putting our skepticals on for a

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lot of these things because

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the drones are out there yeah i am

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more skeptical of ufo sightings than i

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ever was and

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it's basically because of that and uh

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you know there just seems to be

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a lot of you know a lot of these

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sightings tend to look like something

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that

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maybe the government would use and you

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know a lot of them have a lot of lights

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on them

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you know so these radio controlled

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you know just like the helicopters and

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that other stuff they all got a lot of

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lights on them so you know you got to be

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really

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cautious or wary of seeing when you see

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something like that

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well you know i guess the thing with

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ufo's lawn is when i was a kid

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like any time you heard the term ufo it

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was

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i guess as an adult and i think about it

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more and more now

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i start going to more government

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and man-made things than

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extraterrestrial

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that i guess it's funny just how the

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mind works as you get older you just

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start

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immediately rationalizing that and it's

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just something the government's

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tinkering with

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yeah as opposed to it came from neptune

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you know what i mean

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yeah i um well see i come from that era

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when you know when there were ufo

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sightings

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everybody freaked out you know i was um

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you know i remember i i actually

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remember when

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betty and barney hill first uh

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came out with their abduction uh story

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and people were freaked out that was big

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news back then oh yes

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that was really big news and uh the

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first thing

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anybody you know anybody saw ufo it was

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automatically extraterrestrial

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so uh yeah i mean i think the mindset

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you know of course technology has caught

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up a lot to it so

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i think the mindset is now to be much

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more skeptical

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uh to take a better look at it just

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don't don't jump to conclusions about it

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well i'm a little skeptical to begin

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with

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you know i mean i i guess it's just me

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and my safety net i'd rather disbelieve

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than believe right away

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i like to convince myself that something

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exists

284
00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:12,959
and if i can do that then i'm pretty uh

285
00:10:16,949 --> 00:10:15,600
i'm pretty involved and a lot of these

286
00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:16,959
things we've been talking about

287
00:10:22,870 --> 00:10:20,320
over the years and you know really

288
00:10:24,389 --> 00:10:22,880
have fallen into two categories for me

289
00:10:26,069 --> 00:10:24,399
anymore i guess i'm there's not a lot of

290
00:10:26,630 --> 00:10:26,079
things i'm wishy-washy about they've

291
00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:26,640
either

292
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,120
to exist

293
00:10:34,150 --> 00:10:32,959
or their junk and i don't have anything

294
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:34,160
in the middle at this point

295
00:10:37,910 --> 00:10:36,240
like if we come to a topic and we talk

296
00:10:40,710 --> 00:10:37,920
about it lon it's

297
00:10:43,430 --> 00:10:40,720
it's there it's practical it's possible

298
00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:43,440
or it goes in the junk bin

299
00:10:47,190 --> 00:10:45,680
yeah i i i agree with you on that you

300
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:47,200
know

301
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:50,320
i i tell you out of all the phenomena i

302
00:10:54,389 --> 00:10:53,680
look into ufos probably are near the

303
00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:54,399
bottom

304
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:57,040
basically because well there's a lot of

305
00:11:01,910 --> 00:10:59,040
other stuff here on earth that

306
00:11:04,389 --> 00:11:01,920
is much more mysterious to me than ufos

307
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,399
i mean ufos could be a lot of things

308
00:11:07,430 --> 00:11:06,720
and uh now of course i know a lot of

309
00:11:10,389 --> 00:11:07,440
people that

310
00:11:11,910 --> 00:11:10,399
investigate ufos and you know i'm i'm

311
00:11:12,230 --> 00:11:11,920
directly associated with a lot of people

312
00:11:15,269 --> 00:11:12,240
that

313
00:11:17,509 --> 00:11:15,279
investigate ufos but you know it's not

314
00:11:19,829 --> 00:11:17,519
really my bag but then again you know i

315
00:11:20,310 --> 00:11:19,839
do get a lot of odd ufo stories and of

316
00:11:21,990 --> 00:11:20,320
course

317
00:11:24,790 --> 00:11:22,000
if it's tied in with the sighting of a

318
00:11:25,750 --> 00:11:24,800
humanoid or extra thresher or alien type

319
00:11:28,069 --> 00:11:25,760
creature

320
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:28,079
well then that's a bit different but as

321
00:11:31,110 --> 00:11:29,440
far as just looking at

322
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:31,120
lights in the sky and trying to figure

323
00:11:34,550 --> 00:11:33,120
out what it is i you know

324
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,560
there are a lot more things i'd rather

325
00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:36,240
be doing well that's really funny though

326
00:11:40,310 --> 00:11:37,920
because when i had first met you i

327
00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:40,320
always thought you were a ufo guy

328
00:11:43,509 --> 00:11:42,079
you know because it was a lot that was

329
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:43,519
on there well not a lot that was on

330
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,880
there it was always kind of ghosts and

331
00:11:47,350 --> 00:11:46,320
spirits and those sort of things but

332
00:11:50,949 --> 00:11:47,360
there were always a lot of

333
00:11:53,430 --> 00:11:50,959
the david eckert stuff and the uh

334
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:53,440
you know just pictures of humanoid or

335
00:11:58,310 --> 00:11:55,600
the you know alien humanoids uh

336
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:58,320
grays that sort of thing it's it's just

337
00:12:04,710 --> 00:12:00,880
funny the more you learn over time

338
00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:04,720
uh i i guess it's you we we really start

339
00:12:09,269 --> 00:12:06,800
finding out where we really fall

340
00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:09,279
into the the paradigm of what's really

341
00:12:13,590 --> 00:12:11,040
important in our own personal research

342
00:12:16,150 --> 00:12:13,600
i'm not a ufo guy either

343
00:12:17,509 --> 00:12:16,160
no that to me i just i'd rather be

344
00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:17,519
stomping in the fields looking for

345
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:18,560
bigfoot

346
00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:20,320
and at this point my life trying not to

347
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,320
get lyme's disease

348
00:12:27,350 --> 00:12:26,800
really you know what i mean it's uh i

349
00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:27,360
don't know

350
00:12:31,269 --> 00:12:29,920
it's we there's a lot of things out

351
00:12:32,949 --> 00:12:31,279
there that i'm really interested in and

352
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:32,959
i really want to start getting into and

353
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:35,360
studying uh this mantis man

354
00:12:40,069 --> 00:12:38,160
that people are saying i want to start

355
00:12:41,829 --> 00:12:40,079
learning a little bit more about this

356
00:12:44,790 --> 00:12:41,839
i think there might be something to that

357
00:12:47,110 --> 00:12:44,800
maybe not a mantis man but maybe there

358
00:12:48,310 --> 00:12:47,120
is a large type mantis crawling around

359
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:48,320
out here somewhere

360
00:12:52,150 --> 00:12:50,320
well i i don't know what it is and of

361
00:12:53,430 --> 00:12:52,160
course now i've i've been privileged to

362
00:12:55,990 --> 00:12:53,440
three different

363
00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:56,000
sightings in the the hackettstown new

364
00:13:00,230 --> 00:12:57,440
jersey area

365
00:13:00,949 --> 00:13:00,240
and in fact one of the production

366
00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:00,959
companies

367
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:04,480
that films for monsters and mysteries in

368
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:05,680
america

369
00:13:09,990 --> 00:13:08,720
are putting together a story for their

370
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,000
new season

371
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:11,839
so they're looking for other witnesses

372
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,120
as well

373
00:13:17,509 --> 00:13:15,519
uh i don't know what this thing is i i

374
00:13:21,670 --> 00:13:17,519
don't think it's

375
00:13:23,030 --> 00:13:21,680
uh but then again you

376
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:23,040
you know you don't know what it is i

377
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:24,880
mean you know i i the only thing

378
00:13:28,949 --> 00:13:26,880
the only stories i have gotten and

379
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:28,959
they're all fairly similar

380
00:13:31,990 --> 00:13:31,200
is that this thing has got some size to

381
00:13:37,430 --> 00:13:32,000
it

382
00:13:40,069 --> 00:13:37,440
type

383
00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:40,079
being that's that looks more like a a

384
00:13:45,269 --> 00:13:41,360
praying mantis

385
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:45,279
would move

386
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:48,639
but it just you know it would just

387
00:13:52,949 --> 00:13:49,680
disappear

388
00:13:55,829 --> 00:13:52,959
suddenly but it was always around

389
00:13:56,550 --> 00:13:55,839
this uh this river in hakkistown but i

390
00:13:58,389 --> 00:13:56,560
don't know i

391
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:58,399
can't say the name it's called the m

392
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:00,480
kong but it's uh

393
00:14:06,389 --> 00:14:05,040
it it's always around this river so um

394
00:14:08,629 --> 00:14:06,399
i don't know you know i not been up

395
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:08,639
there i was up there last year

396
00:14:12,710 --> 00:14:11,040
and i went to the spot where the

397
00:14:15,670 --> 00:14:12,720
sightings were

398
00:14:15,990 --> 00:14:15,680
and i talked to several people some

399
00:14:18,629 --> 00:14:16,000
people

400
00:14:19,509 --> 00:14:18,639
had heard about it others thought i was

401
00:14:22,550 --> 00:14:19,519
nuts and

402
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:22,560
uh you know so

403
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:25,680
there you go i mean so it's something

404
00:14:28,949 --> 00:14:26,639
that

405
00:14:30,550 --> 00:14:28,959
isn't very well known but there are

406
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:30,560
people that have

407
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,320
seen it have heard about it and have

408
00:14:36,629 --> 00:14:34,399
reported it so

409
00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:36,639
um hopefully i can get some more

410
00:14:41,269 --> 00:14:37,920
information on it

411
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:41,279
down the road but we'll see if it does

412
00:14:43,269 --> 00:14:43,040
come to tv we'll see what they do with

413
00:14:44,790 --> 00:14:43,279
it

414
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:44,800
we can actually do a phantoms and

415
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:46,880
monsters 14 research

416
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:50,320
project on these mantis men yeah that

417
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,199
would be interesting

418
00:14:54,790 --> 00:14:53,199
it's it's time to get out there and

419
00:14:57,110 --> 00:14:54,800
start looking for these mantis men

420
00:15:00,150 --> 00:14:57,120
before they start coming to look for us

421
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:00,160
well you know these insectoid type of

422
00:15:04,629 --> 00:15:04,000
beings have been seen in ufo sightings

423
00:15:07,030 --> 00:15:04,639
uh

424
00:15:09,269 --> 00:15:07,040
and especially there there was a there

425
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:09,279
was a fairly famous case

426
00:15:15,750 --> 00:15:12,399
up in yukon of uh

427
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:15,760
three of these beings in uniform within

428
00:15:23,430 --> 00:15:20,399
uh with the uh praying man's like head

429
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:23,440
and uh i think it was called the canal

430
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:24,399
road uh

431
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:27,440
sighting and that guy swears to god that

432
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:27,920
you know

433
00:15:33,350 --> 00:15:31,120
he saw these three these three beings by

434
00:15:33,910 --> 00:15:33,360
the size of a normal sized man but with

435
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:33,920
an

436
00:15:38,629 --> 00:15:36,959
insectoid heads so

437
00:15:39,670 --> 00:15:38,639
um and it's not the only one i mean

438
00:15:42,069 --> 00:15:39,680
there have been other ones there have

439
00:15:45,189 --> 00:15:42,079
been other sightings as well

440
00:15:47,749 --> 00:15:45,199
so uh i don't know we'll see

441
00:15:49,030 --> 00:15:47,759
well let's hopefully we get some more

442
00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,040
stuff onto this because i

443
00:15:52,310 --> 00:15:50,720
i want to know more about this again

444
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,320
another topic we've been talking about

445
00:15:56,150 --> 00:15:54,000
for the last year

446
00:15:58,790 --> 00:15:56,160
year and a half that's really peaking my

447
00:16:01,910 --> 00:15:58,800
curiosity

448
00:16:02,790 --> 00:16:01,920
yeah it is an interesting case and uh

449
00:16:04,710 --> 00:16:02,800
you know it's something

450
00:16:05,990 --> 00:16:04,720
it's not something i really thought a

451
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,000
whole lot about

452
00:16:12,150 --> 00:16:09,360
until i saw the uh you know until

453
00:16:13,590 --> 00:16:12,160
i was directed to this sighting up there

454
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:13,600
in uh hackettstown

455
00:16:19,430 --> 00:16:17,680
and um you know after after that

456
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:19,440
initial sighting and then the guy

457
00:16:24,150 --> 00:16:20,720
contacted me

458
00:16:25,990 --> 00:16:24,160
and we talked about it um

459
00:16:27,350 --> 00:16:26,000
you know i think i really do think they

460
00:16:31,990 --> 00:16:27,360
saw something because there

461
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:32,000
there was some really emotional um

462
00:16:38,310 --> 00:16:36,240
uh response to citing you know the

463
00:16:42,230 --> 00:16:38,320
sighting of this thing

464
00:16:44,069 --> 00:16:42,240
so um hopefully we can get some more i

465
00:16:45,110 --> 00:16:44,079
hope they do find some other witnesses

466
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:45,120
that would be great

467
00:16:48,470 --> 00:16:47,680
i've been posting it for them see if

468
00:16:51,910 --> 00:16:48,480
they can come up

469
00:16:53,990 --> 00:16:51,920
you know somebody else that has the uh

470
00:16:55,509 --> 00:16:54,000
uh has seen something so somebody has

471
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:55,519
seen anything

472
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,040
and it doesn't necessarily have to be

473
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,600
hackerstown uh

474
00:17:03,430 --> 00:17:01,759
let me know and i i can give you the

475
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:03,440
information for the production

476
00:17:07,429 --> 00:17:04,559
government

477
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:07,439
yep they want the stories and i guess

478
00:17:11,750 --> 00:17:08,160
lon

479
00:17:13,590 --> 00:17:11,760
uh besides insectoids and ufos what else

480
00:17:17,189 --> 00:17:13,600
we got

481
00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:17,199
well there there is a whole lot

482
00:17:22,150 --> 00:17:20,000
that i got this week i i did get one

483
00:17:25,350 --> 00:17:22,160
interesting story

484
00:17:27,590 --> 00:17:25,360
about a wandering object now they

485
00:17:28,470 --> 00:17:27,600
these stories i have heard previously

486
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:28,480
before

487
00:17:31,990 --> 00:17:30,240
i mean now this was a new one but i have

488
00:17:34,230 --> 00:17:32,000
heard accounts similar to

489
00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,240
this one but this one had a little bit

490
00:17:39,830 --> 00:17:36,000
of a twist to it so

491
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:42,150
hi lon i've been reading phantoms and

492
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,679
monsters for over a year just finished

493
00:17:47,990 --> 00:17:45,200
reading your second book

494
00:17:50,549 --> 00:17:48,000
i really enjoyed it i have never noticed

495
00:17:52,150 --> 00:17:50,559
any strange activity around me

496
00:17:54,630 --> 00:17:52,160
but there has been something going on

497
00:17:57,590 --> 00:17:54,640
recently that i wanted to mention

498
00:17:59,830 --> 00:17:57,600
now last summer i purchased a large lot

499
00:18:03,110 --> 00:17:59,840
of lithographs and prints

500
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:03,120
at a farm auction in eastern indiana

501
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:05,200
there were many fine pieces i wanted to

502
00:18:09,430 --> 00:18:06,559
frame and resell

503
00:18:11,990 --> 00:18:09,440
and he had in i have a gallery and a few

504
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:12,000
that i wanted to hang in my collection

505
00:18:16,470 --> 00:18:14,000
there was one exceptional print of jon

506
00:18:18,789 --> 00:18:16,480
stewart curry's tragic prelude

507
00:18:20,150 --> 00:18:18,799
a well-known depiction of abolitionist

508
00:18:23,270 --> 00:18:20,160
john brown

509
00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:23,280
the original mural is located in kansas

510
00:18:27,590 --> 00:18:24,000
state

511
00:18:30,390 --> 00:18:27,600
capitol building in topeka back in may i

512
00:18:33,909 --> 00:18:30,400
was laying in bed

513
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:33,919
oh man certainly

514
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,720
i just lost it back in okay uh back in

515
00:18:39,909 --> 00:18:38,400
may i was laying a bit of sleep when i

516
00:18:43,029 --> 00:18:39,919
heard what sounded like

517
00:18:43,350 --> 00:18:43,039
a squeaky human voice coming from the

518
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:43,360
far

519
00:18:46,870 --> 00:18:45,360
wall in the bedroom in the area of my

520
00:18:49,270 --> 00:18:46,880
desk

521
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:49,280
i sat up in bed and switched on the

522
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,880
nightstand light

523
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:53,679
i continued to hear the voice but could

524
00:18:58,549 --> 00:18:56,559
not understand what it was saying

525
00:19:00,310 --> 00:18:58,559
i looked in the direction of the desk

526
00:19:04,230 --> 00:19:00,320
and noticed that the worker

527
00:19:06,150 --> 00:19:04,240
wicker floor basket was shaking slightly

528
00:19:08,710 --> 00:19:06,160
there were several items in the basket

529
00:19:10,950 --> 00:19:08,720
including the tragic prelude print

530
00:19:11,909 --> 00:19:10,960
which was rolled up in a paper paper

531
00:19:15,029 --> 00:19:11,919
board storage

532
00:19:18,549 --> 00:19:15,039
tube in a minute or so the shaking stop

533
00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,630
i hadn't had time to free in the print

534
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:22,640
so it remained in the storage tube

535
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:24,240
there was no further activity for

536
00:19:29,029 --> 00:19:25,679
several months until

537
00:19:31,270 --> 00:19:29,039
late september one morning

538
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:31,280
i woke up my normal time got up walked

539
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:32,480
towards the bathroom

540
00:19:39,350 --> 00:19:35,840
to my shock the storage tube

541
00:19:41,190 --> 00:19:39,360
was laying across the bathroom sink

542
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:41,200
no one lives in my house and no one

543
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:43,440
spent the night i had no idea how the

544
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:44,559
storage tube

545
00:19:48,390 --> 00:19:46,960
got into the bathroom which i

546
00:19:50,070 --> 00:19:48,400
immediately returned to the wicker

547
00:19:53,029 --> 00:19:50,080
basket

548
00:19:54,150 --> 00:19:53,039
a few days later i returned home from

549
00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:54,160
work

550
00:20:00,470 --> 00:19:57,280
and as i stepped into the dining room

551
00:20:04,630 --> 00:20:00,480
i noticed the storage tube on end

552
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:04,640
upon the old dutch pantry shelf

553
00:20:08,710 --> 00:20:06,720
i picked it up and was certain i felt

554
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,720
some resistance

555
00:20:13,830 --> 00:20:10,799
i laid it on the dining room table and

556
00:20:15,909 --> 00:20:13,840
then briefly stepped into the kitchen

557
00:20:18,630 --> 00:20:15,919
when i walked back into the dining room

558
00:20:21,669 --> 00:20:18,640
the storage tube was gone

559
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,679
now was totally perplexed at this point

560
00:20:26,070 --> 00:20:24,480
i searched through the downstairs rooms

561
00:20:28,789 --> 00:20:26,080
but there was nothing there

562
00:20:30,870 --> 00:20:28,799
now as i began to climb the stairs i

563
00:20:32,630 --> 00:20:30,880
heard that squeaky voice coming from my

564
00:20:35,990 --> 00:20:32,640
bedroom

565
00:20:37,830 --> 00:20:36,000
i slowly ascended to the upstairs level

566
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:37,840
turned right and walked slowly into my

567
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,120
bedroom

568
00:20:42,549 --> 00:20:41,200
i looked over towards the desk in the

569
00:20:45,990 --> 00:20:42,559
wicker basket

570
00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:46,000
the storage tube was in the basket

571
00:20:50,230 --> 00:20:49,200
i sat on the bedroom i sat on sat on the

572
00:20:52,470 --> 00:20:50,240
bed

573
00:20:53,590 --> 00:20:52,480
wondering what was going on thinking to

574
00:20:56,789 --> 00:20:53,600
myself

575
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:56,799
that no one had access to my house how

576
00:21:01,990 --> 00:20:59,280
is this print moving

577
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:02,000
how's it moving about the house the next

578
00:21:04,950 --> 00:21:04,000
day i decided to take the print to the

579
00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:04,960
gallery

580
00:21:08,470 --> 00:21:07,440
and store it there i placed it in a

581
00:21:10,870 --> 00:21:08,480
locked

582
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,880
temperature controlled cabinet in my

583
00:21:14,310 --> 00:21:12,480
office

584
00:21:16,470 --> 00:21:14,320
this week i decided that i needed to

585
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:16,480
frame the print and put it up for sale

586
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:19,039
i just wanted to be rid of it on

587
00:21:24,870 --> 00:21:20,799
wednesday i had some spare

588
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,880
time so i decided to frame the print

589
00:21:27,990 --> 00:21:26,640
i walked over to the cabinet and

590
00:21:31,270 --> 00:21:28,000
unlocked it

591
00:21:32,390 --> 00:21:31,280
the storage tube was gone it's been over

592
00:21:34,870 --> 00:21:32,400
24 hours

593
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:34,880
and i cannot find the print for some

594
00:21:38,789 --> 00:21:36,240
reason i feel like

595
00:21:40,630 --> 00:21:38,799
it will find me at some point i don't

596
00:21:42,390 --> 00:21:40,640
understand why i continued to move from

597
00:21:44,149 --> 00:21:42,400
place to place

598
00:21:46,549 --> 00:21:44,159
and he wanted to know if i or the

599
00:21:50,070 --> 00:21:46,559
readers had any advice

600
00:21:53,669 --> 00:21:50,080
and this person's name was deanna now

601
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:55,270
uh i don't know what day it was maybe

602
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,640
about three or four days after it's

603
00:22:00,870 --> 00:21:58,559
probably friday no it's saturday

604
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,880
i have a saturday i called her and it

605
00:22:05,430 --> 00:22:02,240
hadn't showed up yet

606
00:22:07,029 --> 00:22:05,440
so i don't know what's going on you know

607
00:22:09,669 --> 00:22:07,039
the first thing i thought was

608
00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:09,679
it may have been poltergeist activity

609
00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:10,480
but you know

610
00:22:14,870 --> 00:22:13,360
you can't be certain that's what it was

611
00:22:17,669 --> 00:22:14,880
you know many

612
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,679
a lot of household items all shapes and

613
00:22:20,630 --> 00:22:19,360
sizes

614
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,640
they disappear this is a common

615
00:22:24,149 --> 00:22:22,640
phenomena and many times

616
00:22:26,070 --> 00:22:24,159
you know the items will reappear at a

617
00:22:28,230 --> 00:22:26,080
spot where advantage now

618
00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:28,240
there are instances where items are

619
00:22:33,350 --> 00:22:29,600
collected

620
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:33,360
and left at one location i've seen that

621
00:22:38,310 --> 00:22:35,120
and for whatever reason missing

622
00:22:40,070 --> 00:22:38,320
dinnerware tends to end up in these two

623
00:22:41,350 --> 00:22:40,080
collection points they got to eat

624
00:22:44,149 --> 00:22:41,360
somewhere yeah

625
00:22:45,669 --> 00:22:44,159
and you know it's funny uh many times

626
00:22:48,230 --> 00:22:45,679
the collection points are found in

627
00:22:50,230 --> 00:22:48,240
attics and it because it seems that if

628
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:50,240
if it isn't poltergeist or

629
00:22:54,549 --> 00:22:51,919
if some type of energy moving these

630
00:22:57,270 --> 00:22:54,559
around it's usually in a high

631
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:57,280
area of the building but i've also seen

632
00:23:01,190 --> 00:22:58,000
them behind

633
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:01,200
intact walls is it wow

634
00:23:05,510 --> 00:23:04,159
and uh and the reason and i don't know

635
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:05,520
one

636
00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:12,960
case where i worked in new zealand

637
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:14,799
where the gentleman had been losing

638
00:23:19,110 --> 00:23:16,000
objects

639
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:19,120
couldn't find it he happened to go into

640
00:23:24,710 --> 00:23:19,840
his

641
00:23:27,110 --> 00:23:24,720
and notice that there was a small hole

642
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:27,120
in the wall down by the base of you know

643
00:23:30,470 --> 00:23:29,360
behind somebody's clothes there in the

644
00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:30,480
base of the wall

645
00:23:34,630 --> 00:23:34,080
it was about a quarter size he looked in

646
00:23:37,750 --> 00:23:34,640
the hole

647
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,760
and saw a shoe box and

648
00:23:40,789 --> 00:23:39,280
but he didn't know what was in it so he

649
00:23:42,950 --> 00:23:40,799
took it you know he

650
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:42,960
cut the wall his drywall he cut a little

651
00:23:45,430 --> 00:23:44,480
bit of it out so he could get this thing

652
00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:45,440
out

653
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:47,360
and he had been missing silverware he'd

654
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:49,440
been losing silver like crazy

655
00:23:53,909 --> 00:23:51,919
and it was all in this box maybe you

656
00:23:57,909 --> 00:23:53,919
gotta start that uh same methodology for

657
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:59,350
you know maybe they're in someone's wall

658
00:24:03,590 --> 00:24:01,120
somewhere i don't know

659
00:24:04,549 --> 00:24:03,600
but it does tend to uh that does tend to

660
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:04,559
happen

661
00:24:09,990 --> 00:24:07,919
now i have heard of other cases not

662
00:24:11,510 --> 00:24:10,000
cases that i've worked on that's the

663
00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:11,520
first and only time it's ever happened

664
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:13,760
to me but i have heard of other cases

665
00:24:19,029 --> 00:24:16,880
where these uh you know or there are

666
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:19,039
collection points not necessarily in a

667
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:19,760
box

668
00:24:23,830 --> 00:24:22,320
but maybe a pile of things somewhere

669
00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:23,840
where it shouldn't be or

670
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:27,760
nobody would have access to so

671
00:24:31,110 --> 00:24:29,760
we talked about poltergeist poltergeists

672
00:24:35,110 --> 00:24:31,120
are usually

673
00:24:38,549 --> 00:24:35,120
often entities that are created from our

674
00:24:41,190 --> 00:24:38,559
own subconscious

675
00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,200
yeah and yeah it's a thought it's

676
00:24:44,830 --> 00:24:43,039
normally a form right a thought form

677
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:44,840
it's um

678
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:49,760
now there there needs to be energy

679
00:24:56,470 --> 00:24:53,039
to start the thing now it's usually

680
00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:56,480
in a location where there has been

681
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:59,039
some spirit energy or has been a

682
00:25:04,310 --> 00:25:01,200
haunting of some type

683
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:04,320
uh but it's been benign

684
00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:07,760
and usually

685
00:25:15,510 --> 00:25:11,120
if you've got people or a person

686
00:25:18,230 --> 00:25:15,520
that is putting off a lot of energy

687
00:25:19,510 --> 00:25:18,240
and for instance you know this this

688
00:25:23,430 --> 00:25:19,520
adage that

689
00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:23,440
uh kids that are going through puberty

690
00:25:28,710 --> 00:25:27,120
tend to be those that start this well

691
00:25:30,870 --> 00:25:28,720
you know there's there's good basis

692
00:25:32,149 --> 00:25:30,880
behind that because you know

693
00:25:33,430 --> 00:25:32,159
when you're going through puberty you're

694
00:25:34,070 --> 00:25:33,440
going through all kinds of stuff you

695
00:25:36,149 --> 00:25:34,080
know and

696
00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:36,159
you got you're thinking a lot of

697
00:25:40,230 --> 00:25:37,279
different things

698
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,240
uh good and bad and you know this may

699
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:42,720
coalesce into something

700
00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:46,000
that actually turns into an entity

701
00:25:51,909 --> 00:25:49,360
and that does happen and most portrait

702
00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:51,919
guys cases are what are recognized

703
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:54,400
as poltergeist cases or this coalescing

704
00:25:58,390 --> 00:25:55,039
or

705
00:26:01,190 --> 00:25:58,400
manifestation and

706
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:01,200
uh they're hell to get rid of and most

707
00:26:07,029 --> 00:26:02,640
of times

708
00:26:10,710 --> 00:26:07,039
when there is one it really takes

709
00:26:12,149 --> 00:26:10,720
the person that is manifesting it to

710
00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:12,159
actually get rid of it

711
00:26:15,430 --> 00:26:13,600
it's just not like you can't go in there

712
00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:15,440
and just move it it's not like you can

713
00:26:18,070 --> 00:26:16,240
go in there and

714
00:26:20,230 --> 00:26:18,080
push it away either right you've got a

715
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:20,240
no because you're not gonna be able to

716
00:26:25,110 --> 00:26:20,960
do it

717
00:26:27,190 --> 00:26:25,120
uh you know it's popular for tv to see

718
00:26:29,029 --> 00:26:27,200
people getting rid of photo guys

719
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:29,039
uh you know just like in the movie

720
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:31,440
poltergeist that wasn't anything near

721
00:26:34,710 --> 00:26:32,720
poltergeist that was supposed to

722
00:26:36,149 --> 00:26:34,720
represent clear you know i never did

723
00:26:37,110 --> 00:26:36,159
understand why they called that movie

724
00:26:38,630 --> 00:26:37,120
poltergeist

725
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:38,640
just because things were getting moved

726
00:26:43,110 --> 00:26:40,320
around i guess

727
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:43,120
but um you know that if that would have

728
00:26:47,269 --> 00:26:43,840
represented

729
00:26:50,950 --> 00:26:47,279
a full-blown haunting and uh where

730
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:50,960
you know it was malevolent or

731
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,400
spirit energy that just went haywire

732
00:26:58,870 --> 00:26:56,640
that's not that's not a poltergeist case

733
00:27:02,230 --> 00:27:01,430
uh yeah so that that's what that's what

734
00:27:05,590 --> 00:27:02,240
does happen

735
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:05,600
so um you know this may be a poultry

736
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,000
guys

737
00:27:11,029 --> 00:27:09,360
i don't know but i doubt it ah

738
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:11,039
it's there's something else going on

739
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:14,000
here well she contacted you back or have

740
00:27:18,950 --> 00:27:15,039
you gotten any other

741
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:18,960
she she's not found this as of saturday

742
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,120
which had been three days

743
00:27:24,470 --> 00:27:23,039
uh she hadn't it hadn't shown up

744
00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:24,480
anywhere she hadn't seen it

745
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,600
i see so uh i i will i'm gonna contact

746
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:28,960
her later this week

747
00:27:32,710 --> 00:27:30,559
or sh you know if she does find i'm

748
00:27:35,909 --> 00:27:32,720
quite sure she'll get a hold of me

749
00:27:37,510 --> 00:27:35,919
but um i don't know you know

750
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,520
i don't know i don't know what to think

751
00:27:43,029 --> 00:27:39,600
of this thing me either but

752
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:43,039
hey one more interesting unusual case to

753
00:27:48,870 --> 00:27:43,360
go

754
00:27:50,389 --> 00:27:48,880
into the lawn's x-files yeah oh man

755
00:27:52,389 --> 00:27:50,399
you never get a break something always

756
00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:52,399
going your way i got something coming

757
00:27:55,510 --> 00:27:53,840
most of the time uh

758
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:55,520
it actually it's been a pretty slow week

759
00:28:01,110 --> 00:27:57,600
as far as things coming in

760
00:28:01,430 --> 00:28:01,120
but uh you know which is funny i i got a

761
00:28:03,590 --> 00:28:01,440
uh

762
00:28:04,710 --> 00:28:03,600
i got an email from stan gordon this

763
00:28:07,990 --> 00:28:04,720
morning

764
00:28:09,750 --> 00:28:08,000
concerning some and i don't know where

765
00:28:17,990 --> 00:28:09,760
he was

766
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,000
said he had a lot of people

767
00:28:21,430 --> 00:28:20,000
coming up to him reporting flying

768
00:28:25,110 --> 00:28:21,440
cryptids

769
00:28:26,950 --> 00:28:25,120
and uh some of them

770
00:28:28,630 --> 00:28:26,960
were described as dragons some as

771
00:28:30,789 --> 00:28:28,640
gargoyles

772
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:30,799
i said he had mentioned there was one at

773
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:33,360
least one from massachusetts

774
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:36,480
uh so he contacted me to ask me if i had

775
00:28:39,590 --> 00:28:37,919
been hearing anything and

776
00:28:42,310 --> 00:28:39,600
i had her thing well you know these

777
00:28:45,590 --> 00:28:42,320
gargoyles are becoming pretty

778
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:45,600
uh prevalent at least in pennsylvania

779
00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:48,799
you know uh

780
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:53,440
the border pennsylvania ohio uh it's

781
00:28:58,070 --> 00:28:56,240
these gargoyles are becoming pretty uh

782
00:28:59,510 --> 00:28:58,080
pretty i don't want to say common

783
00:29:01,830 --> 00:28:59,520
but they're becoming pretty repeat

784
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:01,840
offenders in terms of being sighted

785
00:29:05,590 --> 00:29:03,760
i know brian and terry siege have been

786
00:29:07,269 --> 00:29:05,600
interview uh investigating and

787
00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:07,279
interviewing folks who have seen a

788
00:29:12,870 --> 00:29:11,120
gargoyle-type creature yeah i mean

789
00:29:14,950 --> 00:29:12,880
uh of course you know the thing on

790
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:14,960
butler there's been something seen up

791
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:16,480
there several times

792
00:29:20,789 --> 00:29:18,720
up in butler county which is uh what

793
00:29:23,909 --> 00:29:20,799
northeast of pittsburgh

794
00:29:29,190 --> 00:29:23,919
uh i do know there have been some

795
00:29:35,990 --> 00:29:32,470
there was something cited in

796
00:29:38,230 --> 00:29:36,000
west virginia near wheeling

797
00:29:39,190 --> 00:29:38,240
now this was something other that i had

798
00:29:41,669 --> 00:29:39,200
reported

799
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:41,679
but i had heard something briefly about

800
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:42,559
something that was

801
00:29:47,110 --> 00:29:45,200
said to look like a dragon or gargoyle a

802
00:29:49,510 --> 00:29:47,120
while back so i i don't know i

803
00:29:52,389 --> 00:29:49,520
i don't know what people are seeing some

804
00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:52,399
of the descriptions are

805
00:29:55,590 --> 00:29:54,240
well i mean some of the descriptions i

806
00:29:58,389 --> 00:29:55,600
i've heard could

807
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:58,399
easily be said to be like mothman type

808
00:30:00,710 --> 00:29:59,120
entities

809
00:30:02,870 --> 00:30:00,720
yeah and you've been getting those kind

810
00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:02,880
of frequently the last few weeks

811
00:30:07,990 --> 00:30:06,840
yeah yeah those um you know in mothman

812
00:30:09,830 --> 00:30:08,000
sightings

813
00:30:11,909 --> 00:30:09,840
you know i hate to say that they're

814
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,919
they're common but

815
00:30:14,950 --> 00:30:13,279
you know people are seeing something

816
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:14,960
flying around and

817
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,760
they've all got some decent size to them

818
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:20,320
uh a lot of times they have this uh

819
00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:22,159
either reddish or

820
00:30:26,789 --> 00:30:25,520
orange glow to the head or the eyes or

821
00:30:30,389 --> 00:30:26,799
whatever

822
00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:30,399
um i don't know

823
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:32,960
you know it's uh it's all it's a big

824
00:30:35,990 --> 00:30:35,120
mystery and it's something that i love

825
00:30:38,870 --> 00:30:36,000
investigating

826
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,880
so if people hear anything let me know

827
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,080
about it

828
00:30:44,070 --> 00:30:42,000
i told stan said look you know if i hear

829
00:30:45,909 --> 00:30:44,080
something i'll definitely let you know

830
00:30:47,430 --> 00:30:45,919
so uh but apparently he's got something

831
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:47,440
in the works

832
00:30:51,430 --> 00:30:50,000
so we've had a lot of bigfoot activity

833
00:30:53,430 --> 00:30:51,440
going on in the northern part of the

834
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,440
state again

835
00:30:57,110 --> 00:30:55,200
sightings coming in across the northern

836
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:57,120
tier oh yeah i just saw that i just saw

837
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:57,840
that report

838
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:00,399
yeah i said now and i i made this

839
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:02,240
comment to you in the past once folks

840
00:31:04,950 --> 00:31:02,640
know

841
00:31:05,990 --> 00:31:04,960
that we're going out and we're

842
00:31:07,509 --> 00:31:06,000
investigating

843
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:07,519
these areas we're going to start getting

844
00:31:11,590 --> 00:31:09,919
cases and sure enough the cases are

845
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,600
coming in and a lot of what folks don't

846
00:31:15,029 --> 00:31:13,039
understand and i might have said it in

847
00:31:16,830 --> 00:31:15,039
the past a couple weeks ago

848
00:31:18,470 --> 00:31:16,840
is that this part of the state's very

849
00:31:21,590 --> 00:31:18,480
conservative

850
00:31:23,190 --> 00:31:21,600
and a lot of old-timers live up that way

851
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,200
and the thing with old-timers is they

852
00:31:26,870 --> 00:31:25,440
either are that old and they don't give

853
00:31:27,990 --> 00:31:26,880
a [\h__\h] about what people think so

854
00:31:29,590 --> 00:31:28,000
they're going to go out there and tell

855
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:29,600
everybody everything and people think

856
00:31:32,470 --> 00:31:30,720
they're crazy

857
00:31:33,750 --> 00:31:32,480
or they care too much about what

858
00:31:34,950 --> 00:31:33,760
everybody thinks and they don't say

859
00:31:37,669 --> 00:31:34,960
anything to anybody because they don't

860
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:37,679
want to be labeled crazy

861
00:31:43,350 --> 00:31:41,440
but yeah it's more so that one

862
00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:43,360
and we don't get a lot of reports out

863
00:31:46,549 --> 00:31:44,880
this way when we're out there and you

864
00:31:48,549 --> 00:31:46,559
know it's all about relationship

865
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,559
building it really is

866
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:50,399
getting the trust these people getting

867
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,919
to trust us let us know

868
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,760
letting you know by our actions showing

869
00:31:57,029 --> 00:31:55,039
them we're not

870
00:31:58,549 --> 00:31:57,039
insane we're not here to mess anything

871
00:32:00,230 --> 00:31:58,559
up and we're here to protect their land

872
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:00,240
and their property and

873
00:32:04,149 --> 00:32:02,640
uh finally starting to get some cases

874
00:32:05,830 --> 00:32:04,159
coming out so i'm excited to see where

875
00:32:07,990 --> 00:32:05,840
that's going to take us

876
00:32:09,110 --> 00:32:08,000
because uh you know we need a lot more

877
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,120
data

878
00:32:13,350 --> 00:32:11,760
because bigfoot sightings happen still

879
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:13,360
doesn't give us enough data so we can

880
00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:14,399
move on it

881
00:32:18,230 --> 00:32:16,480
a lot more research needs to go into

882
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,240
this and i know

883
00:32:21,750 --> 00:32:20,640
the pa bigfoot society and the keystone

884
00:32:24,149 --> 00:32:21,760
bigfoot project

885
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:24,159
and we're just committed to getting that

886
00:32:30,470 --> 00:32:27,440
data man we need that information

887
00:32:32,950 --> 00:32:30,480
well and you know that's all well and

888
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:32,960
good but you know now when shows come

889
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:33,840
out

890
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:37,039
for advocating killing bigfoot oh man

891
00:32:43,830 --> 00:32:40,320
yeah then you know i you know i don't

892
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:43,840
i don't understand that at all i i i

893
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:47,120
am very disappointed in something like

894
00:32:51,269 --> 00:32:48,080
that coming out

895
00:32:53,350 --> 00:32:51,279
i just really don't understand it it's

896
00:32:55,190 --> 00:32:53,360
i don't find the logic of putting on

897
00:32:58,470 --> 00:32:55,200
something like that on television

898
00:33:00,389 --> 00:32:58,480
no it's somebody's going to get killed

899
00:33:02,630 --> 00:33:00,399
well that's what's going to happen

900
00:33:03,990 --> 00:33:02,640
somebody's going to think they can do it

901
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:04,000
and they're going to go out there in the

902
00:33:08,630 --> 00:33:06,080
woods

903
00:33:10,389 --> 00:33:08,640
or somebody else out there seriously

904
00:33:11,669 --> 00:33:10,399
investigating this phenomena you wear

905
00:33:13,430 --> 00:33:11,679
blaze orange

906
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,440
a few times a year when you're out there

907
00:33:15,990 --> 00:33:15,120
and it's when you have to during hunting

908
00:33:17,750 --> 00:33:16,000
season

909
00:33:19,430 --> 00:33:17,760
which is normally when i don't go out

910
00:33:20,230 --> 00:33:19,440
anyhow just out of respect for hunters

911
00:33:23,990 --> 00:33:20,240
so hey

912
00:33:26,870 --> 00:33:24,000
they don't happen to mistake me for a

913
00:33:28,549 --> 00:33:26,880
a bigfoot or a bear or a known animal

914
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,559
and blow me away

915
00:33:31,830 --> 00:33:30,080
and i'm using me as just a reference

916
00:33:37,029 --> 00:33:31,840
because

917
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:37,039
don't want to have to worry about that

918
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,559
the rest of the year when i'm out there

919
00:33:42,070 --> 00:33:40,480
trying to investigate bigfoot

920
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:42,080
and i think it's a damn shame that

921
00:33:45,190 --> 00:33:44,080
television channels and networks have to

922
00:33:49,110 --> 00:33:45,200
rely

923
00:33:53,029 --> 00:33:49,120
on sensationalized drama-filled

924
00:33:56,070 --> 00:33:53,039
uh shows now that sensationalize

925
00:33:58,389 --> 00:33:56,080
killing a bigfoot what the really show's

926
00:33:59,350 --> 00:33:58,399
going to be titled next season it's

927
00:34:02,870 --> 00:33:59,360
going to be called

928
00:34:04,070 --> 00:34:02,880
cancelled with the title not going to

929
00:34:05,669 --> 00:34:04,080
kill bigfoot

930
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,679
but we just killed a family while

931
00:34:09,349 --> 00:34:07,600
camping you know what i mean

932
00:34:11,109 --> 00:34:09,359
and that's that's what my fear is

933
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:11,119
someone's going to get really hurt

934
00:34:15,589 --> 00:34:12,720
either through the production of this

935
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:15,599
show association with this show

936
00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,760
or because of the frame of mind that's

937
00:34:21,669 --> 00:34:19,280
going to put people in

938
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,679
from watching the show and hopefully

939
00:34:25,669 --> 00:34:23,679
somewhere along the line humanity will

940
00:34:26,790 --> 00:34:25,679
regain their sense and will realize that

941
00:34:28,950 --> 00:34:26,800
shows like this

942
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:28,960
just aren't even funny there's not a

943
00:34:32,389 --> 00:34:31,280
damn thing thing funny folks about going

944
00:34:34,149 --> 00:34:32,399
out in the woods

945
00:34:35,430 --> 00:34:34,159
trying to kill a bigfoot which may or

946
00:34:37,270 --> 00:34:35,440
may not exist

947
00:34:38,869 --> 00:34:37,280
when there's actual real people out

948
00:34:40,310 --> 00:34:38,879
there looking for these things are out

949
00:34:42,069 --> 00:34:40,320
there having a good time

950
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,079
that are lining up to be slaughtered

951
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,560
because morons with their hunting rifles

952
00:34:48,950 --> 00:34:46,399
don't have anything better to do outside

953
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:48,960
of hunting season

954
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,960
well you know i think there will be a

955
00:34:56,470 --> 00:34:53,280
push back from the community itself

956
00:34:58,390 --> 00:34:56,480
uh i hope there is a pushback from the

957
00:34:59,910 --> 00:34:58,400
general public

958
00:35:01,109 --> 00:34:59,920
i don't know if that's going to happen

959
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:01,119
you know you're always going to have

960
00:35:03,990 --> 00:35:02,560
people that are going to

961
00:35:06,069 --> 00:35:04,000
say they enjoy the show and they're

962
00:35:08,310 --> 00:35:06,079
going to watch it just for

963
00:35:09,829 --> 00:35:08,320
get their jobs out of watching something

964
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:09,839
like that you know i don't understand

965
00:35:15,349 --> 00:35:10,640
that

966
00:35:17,109 --> 00:35:15,359
but um yeah if something does happen

967
00:35:18,710 --> 00:35:17,119
believe me the that show's going to be

968
00:35:20,790 --> 00:35:18,720
cited for causing it

969
00:35:22,630 --> 00:35:20,800
they're going to be somebody that says

970
00:35:23,990 --> 00:35:22,640
something about the show and

971
00:35:25,670 --> 00:35:24,000
that they thought you know they got the

972
00:35:26,390 --> 00:35:25,680
idea we're going to go you know and i

973
00:35:31,990 --> 00:35:26,400
got

974
00:35:34,069 --> 00:35:32,000
going to have to be some type of um

975
00:35:35,109 --> 00:35:34,079
some type of preface before the show

976
00:35:37,270 --> 00:35:35,119
comes on

977
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:37,280
stating not to go out there and shoot a

978
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,240
bigfoot

979
00:35:41,750 --> 00:35:40,880
or don't do what we do or something to

980
00:35:43,589 --> 00:35:41,760
that effect

981
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,599
the legal mandate should be is they

982
00:35:49,589 --> 00:35:46,320
should have to post a three-minute video

983
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:49,599
per state that they're broadcasting it

984
00:35:54,470 --> 00:35:50,400
in

985
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:54,480
and what time of the year you're allowed

986
00:35:59,270 --> 00:35:56,079
to carry firearms

987
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:59,280
and game areas so somebody doesn't get

988
00:36:03,589 --> 00:36:00,880
killed out there

989
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,599
well you know i can't understand what

990
00:36:07,430 --> 00:36:04,880
state

991
00:36:07,910 --> 00:36:07,440
in the first place would allow somebody

992
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:07,920
a

993
00:36:11,510 --> 00:36:10,000
group of guys to go out there if they're

994
00:36:15,190 --> 00:36:11,520
using rifles

995
00:36:16,790 --> 00:36:15,200
to go out there and shoot a bigfoot

996
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:16,800
yeah i mean if they're out there filming

997
00:36:20,790 --> 00:36:18,640
this thing i mean

998
00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:20,800
the premise is that they're actually out

999
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:22,480
there trying to do that

1000
00:36:30,230 --> 00:36:26,160
now if that is the case then i would say

1001
00:36:32,550 --> 00:36:30,240
that a local game com commission

1002
00:36:34,150 --> 00:36:32,560
should have a problem with that i agree

1003
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:34,160
with you and i know the blowback i'm

1004
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:35,040
gonna get this

1005
00:36:39,510 --> 00:36:37,599
from some of our listeners on this that

1006
00:36:41,109 --> 00:36:39,520
oh you don't sound like you like guns

1007
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:41,119
very much no i grew up in

1008
00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:43,440
central north northern central

1009
00:36:47,030 --> 00:36:44,640
pennsylvania

1010
00:36:47,670 --> 00:36:47,040
gun land where people use guns a lot

1011
00:36:50,390 --> 00:36:47,680
here

1012
00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:50,400
to kill their food and unfortunately

1013
00:36:54,870 --> 00:36:51,760
each other occasionally

1014
00:36:56,950 --> 00:36:54,880
up in these parts i'm just not a fan of

1015
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,960
advocating people going out in the woods

1016
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:58,079
with guns

1017
00:37:01,829 --> 00:36:59,680
willy-nilly just because it seems like a

1018
00:37:03,190 --> 00:37:01,839
good idea because they saw it on tv

1019
00:37:05,030 --> 00:37:03,200
because let me tell you there's a lot of

1020
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:05,040
people out there with guns that are

1021
00:37:08,630 --> 00:37:07,359
stupid that don't know how to use them

1022
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:08,640
just as well as there are

1023
00:37:12,390 --> 00:37:10,240
out there that are well trained that i

1024
00:37:14,310 --> 00:37:12,400
would trust with my life

1025
00:37:16,230 --> 00:37:14,320
well i'm you know i'm the same way i i

1026
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:16,240
was raised with a gun in my hand

1027
00:37:20,630 --> 00:37:19,200
i lived on a farm a lot and a lot of the

1028
00:37:22,790 --> 00:37:20,640
time i was a kid

1029
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:22,800
and my aunt and uncles and they had a

1030
00:37:27,670 --> 00:37:24,480
large forum and they had

1031
00:37:30,550 --> 00:37:27,680
woods and i hunted all the time

1032
00:37:31,750 --> 00:37:30,560
and uh you know it's just something i

1033
00:37:33,589 --> 00:37:31,760
don't do anymore

1034
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:33,599
there's not a specific reason why i

1035
00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:35,359
don't uh but

1036
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,760
it's just something i didn't have time

1037
00:37:41,750 --> 00:37:39,200
to do as i stopped doing it

1038
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:41,760
i don't i don't advocate not hunting i

1039
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:43,760
mean i i either i'm i'm all for

1040
00:37:47,589 --> 00:37:45,920
problem with people hunting i like game

1041
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,599
meat yeah

1042
00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:50,560
i'm the same way but it's just when they

1043
00:37:56,630 --> 00:37:53,520
come up with this type of asinine

1044
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:56,640
you know it is they show i mean you know

1045
00:38:00,230 --> 00:37:59,119
it advocates basically killing something

1046
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:00,240
that

1047
00:38:04,390 --> 00:38:02,960
is almost human or if it isn't if it

1048
00:38:07,670 --> 00:38:04,400
isn't human

1049
00:38:09,750 --> 00:38:07,680
so you know i don't you know

1050
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:09,760
i'm just hoping this thing does not last

1051
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:12,480
long my dad and i have a very

1052
00:38:17,349 --> 00:38:15,680
uh well

1053
00:38:19,829 --> 00:38:17,359
i don't know we don't talk a whole heck

1054
00:38:22,230 --> 00:38:19,839
of a lot and he saw this

1055
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:22,240
thing on finding bigfoot not on killing

1056
00:38:26,069 --> 00:38:23,280
bigfoot

1057
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:26,079
and sent me this article and he goes he

1058
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:27,839
goes what do you plan on saying about

1059
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:28,240
this

1060
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,760
and i said i really don't know and the

1061
00:38:33,829 --> 00:38:31,599
more and more i think about it

1062
00:38:35,349 --> 00:38:33,839
the angrier and angrier i become about

1063
00:38:36,710 --> 00:38:35,359
it because this is everything i've

1064
00:38:39,990 --> 00:38:36,720
worked hard

1065
00:38:42,150 --> 00:38:40,000
to prevent a show like this from

1066
00:38:43,349 --> 00:38:42,160
having to be on television because i

1067
00:38:44,950 --> 00:38:43,359
knew one day

1068
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,960
some morons going to say hey this is a

1069
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:46,400
great idea let's get out there on tv and

1070
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:47,280
kill the big feet

1071
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:52,000
you know and night and uh

1072
00:38:56,230 --> 00:38:54,640
let me get the date straight here

1073
00:38:58,950 --> 00:38:56,240
bigfootville what year to bigfootville

1074
00:39:04,710 --> 00:39:01,750
late 90s sometime i think okay

1075
00:39:06,550 --> 00:39:04,720
bigfootville really kind of sparked me

1076
00:39:08,470 --> 00:39:06,560
into getting out to the field i was

1077
00:39:09,190 --> 00:39:08,480
still young at the time 1999 i just

1078
00:39:12,069 --> 00:39:09,200
started my

1079
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:12,079
first year of high school on the fall of

1080
00:39:14,310 --> 00:39:13,599
99 i started my first year of high

1081
00:39:15,829 --> 00:39:14,320
school

1082
00:39:17,829 --> 00:39:15,839
that was the same year of columbine i

1083
00:39:21,030 --> 00:39:17,839
rem that's how i remember all this

1084
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:21,040
and uh uh

1085
00:39:26,790 --> 00:39:24,720
i i just remembered back then that

1086
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:26,800
uh those guys shooting the guns off in

1087
00:39:29,190 --> 00:39:28,240
the distance at the night time i was

1088
00:39:30,550 --> 00:39:29,200
like wow

1089
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:30,560
that's something you don't usually see

1090
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:33,200
on tv on these bigfoot documentaries and

1091
00:39:37,030 --> 00:39:34,400
that that was kind of like

1092
00:39:37,829 --> 00:39:37,040
hmm i don't know if i'd like that too

1093
00:39:39,829 --> 00:39:37,839
much

1094
00:39:40,870 --> 00:39:39,839
and then here we are all these years

1095
00:39:42,470 --> 00:39:40,880
later and

1096
00:39:44,230 --> 00:39:42,480
uh you know at least that's what i'll

1097
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:44,240
say with shows like finding bigfoot

1098
00:39:47,589 --> 00:39:45,760
at least that they're trying to do

1099
00:39:51,270 --> 00:39:47,599
something that's

1100
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:51,280
non-violent productive right

1101
00:39:57,270 --> 00:39:55,040
but you know 99

1102
00:39:58,230 --> 00:39:57,280
99 bigfootville got me really started

1103
00:40:00,550 --> 00:39:58,240
into it again

1104
00:40:02,829 --> 00:40:00,560
04 i started going into the field with

1105
00:40:05,910 --> 00:40:02,839
the pbs

1106
00:40:09,670 --> 00:40:05,920
2007 i got a call

1107
00:40:12,309 --> 00:40:09,680
from somebody in a uh

1108
00:40:15,430 --> 00:40:12,319
down south left a message on the

1109
00:40:17,550 --> 00:40:15,440
american bigfoot society voicemail

1110
00:40:20,630 --> 00:40:17,560
telling me he had a couple

1111
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,309
and that if we didn't get down there

1112
00:40:24,550 --> 00:40:24,160
soon he was going to start executing

1113
00:40:28,630 --> 00:40:24,560
them

1114
00:40:31,910 --> 00:40:28,640
oh my yeah and and ever since

1115
00:40:35,190 --> 00:40:31,920
that i i've just been spurned

1116
00:40:35,589 --> 00:40:35,200
not to enjoy anything remotely related

1117
00:40:39,190 --> 00:40:35,599
to

1118
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:39,200
the capturing or lethal

1119
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:41,520
lethal attempts to take a bigfoot it's

1120
00:40:44,710 --> 00:40:42,800
never been

1121
00:40:47,109 --> 00:40:44,720
you know i've i'll never take one i

1122
00:40:48,550 --> 00:40:47,119
guess and i've never been somebody

1123
00:40:50,710 --> 00:40:48,560
that's been like you know

1124
00:40:52,069 --> 00:40:50,720
oh let's protect these creatures you

1125
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:52,079
know their god creatures

1126
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:54,640
too but i just never been somebody you

1127
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:56,160
know what folks want to do on their own

1128
00:41:00,069 --> 00:40:58,079
time is their own business

1129
00:41:01,750 --> 00:41:00,079
and that if somebody wanted to take one

1130
00:41:04,470 --> 00:41:01,760
i wouldn't be opposed to it as long as

1131
00:41:07,829 --> 00:41:06,069
you know i'm really really really

1132
00:41:10,710 --> 00:41:07,839
starting to regret my

1133
00:41:12,550 --> 00:41:10,720
my uh position on that i'm really

1134
00:41:13,670 --> 00:41:12,560
wishing i was a little bit more forceful

1135
00:41:16,550 --> 00:41:13,680
and you know what

1136
00:41:17,270 --> 00:41:16,560
to take one of these creatures not just

1137
00:41:18,630 --> 00:41:17,280
because

1138
00:41:20,150 --> 00:41:18,640
it is a creature that should be

1139
00:41:22,390 --> 00:41:20,160
protected because really it's doing a

1140
00:41:25,430 --> 00:41:22,400
good job without our protection

1141
00:41:29,270 --> 00:41:25,440
but just because it's just wrong yeah

1142
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:29,280
kill something like that that is

1143
00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:33,280
kind of you know it's got its own

1144
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,359
sentient life and its own way of life

1145
00:41:40,870 --> 00:41:39,200
why do you feel the need to go out and

1146
00:41:42,150 --> 00:41:40,880
kill it just to prove to the rest of us

1147
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:42,160
it exists

1148
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,599
but they're not even out to do that

1149
00:41:46,069 --> 00:41:45,200
they're out to kill it to turn it into a

1150
00:41:48,390 --> 00:41:46,079
trophy

1151
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,400
yeah put it on their mantel or make a

1152
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:50,240
rug out of it and i have a real issue

1153
00:41:52,550 --> 00:41:51,040
with that

1154
00:41:54,470 --> 00:41:52,560
it's not benefiting science it's

1155
00:41:57,510 --> 00:41:54,480
benefiting their sportsmanship

1156
00:41:59,670 --> 00:41:57,520
it's chest beating and it's stupid and

1157
00:42:01,670 --> 00:41:59,680
if that's good enough reason to kill

1158
00:42:03,510 --> 00:42:01,680
something well then maybe they ought to

1159
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:03,520
pull that barrel around and just do us a

1160
00:42:06,309 --> 00:42:04,880
favor and pull the trigger before they

1161
00:42:08,790 --> 00:42:06,319
even get on tv

1162
00:42:10,069 --> 00:42:08,800
well i think i think there's one thing

1163
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:10,079
you can take

1164
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:12,160
some solace in first of all they're

1165
00:42:16,470 --> 00:42:13,520
never gonna kill one

1166
00:42:16,790 --> 00:42:16,480
on tv anyway well that's true and it's

1167
00:42:18,710 --> 00:42:16,800
like

1168
00:42:21,270 --> 00:42:18,720
finding bigfoot they're never gonna find

1169
00:42:24,150 --> 00:42:21,280
one or they should be gone

1170
00:42:25,910 --> 00:42:24,160
so yeah i guess that's why it's still

1171
00:42:29,990 --> 00:42:25,920
called finding bigfoot not hey we found

1172
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:32,069
don't know i i get heated about this

1173
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:33,599
because it bothers me

1174
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,319
over the years it's gotten bothersome

1175
00:42:41,109 --> 00:42:38,800
and i think my just my complacency

1176
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:41,119
has bothered me even more about it but

1177
00:42:46,630 --> 00:42:42,839
folks that's our

1178
00:42:48,470 --> 00:42:46,640
speak that's our speak for this portion

1179
00:42:49,670 --> 00:42:48,480
of the program we'll be back in just a

1180
00:42:51,589 --> 00:42:49,680
little bit

1181
00:42:53,990 --> 00:42:51,599
with uh our guest which we didn't even

1182
00:42:56,710 --> 00:42:54,000
announce on rosemary ellengile

1183
00:42:57,430 --> 00:42:56,720
yes he's going to be joining us rosemary

1184
00:42:59,109 --> 00:42:57,440
the queen

1185
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,119
of the paranormal if anybody deserves a

1186
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:01,040
title as such it's definitely her

1187
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,560
so stick around and we'll be right back

1188
00:43:08,950 --> 00:43:07,280
the mistress of the unknown even better

1189
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:08,960
all right folks check up with us in just

1190
00:43:15,589 --> 00:43:13,440
a little bit

1191
00:43:17,589 --> 00:43:15,599
folks you're listening to arcane radio

1192
00:43:19,750 --> 00:43:17,599
sean forker lon strickler with

1193
00:43:21,829 --> 00:43:19,760
our special guest today someone that

1194
00:43:24,870 --> 00:43:21,839
we're very excited

1195
00:43:26,230 --> 00:43:24,880
uh is joining us uh as lon called her

1196
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:26,240
before we left uh

1197
00:43:31,990 --> 00:43:29,440
to come back the mistress of the unknown

1198
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:32,000
we kind of like that nickname uh miss

1199
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,599
rosemary ellen guyley

1200
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:35,119
and rosemary is one of the leading

1201
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,560
experts in the metaphysical and

1202
00:43:40,550 --> 00:43:38,079
paranormal fields

1203
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,560
with 59 books published on a wide range

1204
00:43:44,390 --> 00:43:42,560
of paranormal spiritual and mystical

1205
00:43:47,349 --> 00:43:44,400
topics including nine

1206
00:43:49,910 --> 00:43:47,359
single-volume encyclopedias her work is

1207
00:43:52,069 --> 00:43:49,920
translated into 15 languages

1208
00:43:54,069 --> 00:43:52,079
her present work focuses on spiritual

1209
00:43:56,870 --> 00:43:54,079
growth and development the afterlife

1210
00:43:58,790 --> 00:43:56,880
and spirit communications psychic skills

1211
00:44:00,950 --> 00:43:58,800
and dream work for well-being working

1212
00:44:02,309 --> 00:44:00,960
with angels past and parallel lives

1213
00:44:04,470 --> 00:44:02,319
problem hauntings

1214
00:44:06,630 --> 00:44:04,480
entity contact experiences and

1215
00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:06,640
investigation of unusual paranormal

1216
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:07,760
activity

1217
00:44:11,190 --> 00:44:09,680
she has done groundbreaking research on

1218
00:44:13,910 --> 00:44:11,200
shadow people and

1219
00:44:14,710 --> 00:44:13,920
the gin rosemary is a certified

1220
00:44:16,309 --> 00:44:14,720
hypnotist

1221
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:16,319
through the international hypnosis

1222
00:44:18,870 --> 00:44:18,400
federation she has studied energy

1223
00:44:20,829 --> 00:44:18,880
healing

1224
00:44:23,829 --> 00:44:20,839
and completed advanced training in

1225
00:44:27,190 --> 00:44:23,839
bioenergy

1226
00:44:29,270 --> 00:44:27,200
she is a reader and teacher of the tarot

1227
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:29,280
and is co-author with robert michael

1228
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:30,640
place of the

1229
00:44:36,630 --> 00:44:33,680
alchemy tarot and the angels tarot

1230
00:44:37,910 --> 00:44:36,640
she conducts dream work intuition

1231
00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:37,920
development and past

1232
00:44:41,750 --> 00:44:39,839
life recall sessions i didn't know all

1233
00:44:42,950 --> 00:44:41,760
this see i'm i'm reading your bio and

1234
00:44:45,910 --> 00:44:42,960
learning a little bit more about your

1235
00:44:50,390 --> 00:44:48,069
rosemary leads her own multimedia

1236
00:44:51,829 --> 00:44:50,400
company visionary living incorporated

1237
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:51,839
through which she publishes some of her

1238
00:44:57,349 --> 00:44:54,240
work in a variety of formats and also

1239
00:44:59,589 --> 00:44:57,359
an e-newsletter strange dimensions she

1240
00:45:02,150 --> 00:44:59,599
has regular radio features on exploring

1241
00:45:04,550 --> 00:45:02,160
unexplained phenomena with scott colburn

1242
00:45:06,390 --> 00:45:04,560
and the conspiracy show she is a

1243
00:45:08,309 --> 00:45:06,400
frequent guest with george nori on coast

1244
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:08,319
to coast am with whom she co-authored

1245
00:45:11,910 --> 00:45:10,160
talking to the dead about emerging

1246
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:11,920
technology for communicating with the

1247
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,720
dead

1248
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:14,800
and other beings she is featured in

1249
00:45:17,349 --> 00:45:16,720
documentaries and docudramas on the

1250
00:45:20,150 --> 00:45:17,359
history

1251
00:45:21,589 --> 00:45:20,160
a e sci-fi discovery animal planet and

1252
00:45:23,589 --> 00:45:21,599
travel channels

1253
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:23,599
in addition she is a popular speaker at

1254
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:30,230
rosemary is a consulting editor of fate

1255
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:32,000
magazine and a board director of the

1256
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:33,520
national museum of mysteries and

1257
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:35,599
research a non-profit educational

1258
00:45:39,270 --> 00:45:37,040
organization in columbia

1259
00:45:40,470 --> 00:45:39,280
pennsylvania she is a past board of

1260
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,480
director of the international

1261
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:42,800
association for the study of dreams

1262
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:44,400
and a past member of the board of

1263
00:45:48,069 --> 00:45:46,319
trustees of the academy of religion and

1264
00:45:50,950 --> 00:45:48,079
physical research

1265
00:45:52,630 --> 00:45:50,960
now the academy for spiritual and

1266
00:45:53,670 --> 00:45:52,640
consciousness studies she lives in

1267
00:45:56,470 --> 00:45:53,680
connecticut

1268
00:45:57,589 --> 00:45:56,480
and that's just a little bit about

1269
00:45:59,190 --> 00:45:57,599
rosemary

1270
00:46:00,790 --> 00:45:59,200
and we're going to talk to her about the

1271
00:46:02,470 --> 00:46:00,800
rest of the little bit

1272
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:02,480
in just a few moments but rosemary

1273
00:46:04,710 --> 00:46:03,599
thanks for joining us we understand

1274
00:46:05,910 --> 00:46:04,720
you've been quite busy

1275
00:46:07,270 --> 00:46:05,920
and we're really pleased that you could

1276
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:07,280
just take the time and spend a little

1277
00:46:11,670 --> 00:46:07,920
bit with

1278
00:46:14,390 --> 00:46:11,680
lon and i it was definitely a priority

1279
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:14,400
sean and hello lawn to be on this show

1280
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,040
because

1281
00:46:19,109 --> 00:46:17,280
um you know i've worked with both of you

1282
00:46:19,510 --> 00:46:19,119
in the past and it's always been great

1283
00:46:21,109 --> 00:46:19,520
so

1284
00:46:22,630 --> 00:46:21,119
i was really glad when our dates

1285
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:22,640
coincided this season

1286
00:46:27,430 --> 00:46:25,280
as usual october for all of us in the

1287
00:46:28,069 --> 00:46:27,440
paranormal it's our christmas season so

1288
00:46:31,430 --> 00:46:28,079
to speak

1289
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:31,440
and so all of us get to be very busy and

1290
00:46:35,270 --> 00:46:34,400
i've been out on the road quite a bit as

1291
00:46:37,430 --> 00:46:35,280
well as

1292
00:46:39,589 --> 00:46:37,440
trying to keep up with my other

1293
00:46:40,390 --> 00:46:39,599
activities and boy you gave everybody

1294
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:40,400
the full bore

1295
00:46:44,630 --> 00:46:43,599
on that one well like i said i learned a

1296
00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:44,640
little bit about you

1297
00:46:49,670 --> 00:46:47,760
that i didn't know there uh myself and

1298
00:46:51,030 --> 00:46:49,680
uh you know especially you know the

1299
00:46:52,470 --> 00:46:51,040
dream studies

1300
00:46:54,870 --> 00:46:52,480
and that sort of things things i'm just

1301
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:54,880
starting to slowly start taking an

1302
00:46:59,910 --> 00:46:57,520
interest and

1303
00:47:02,069 --> 00:46:59,920
it's fascinating fascinating well all of

1304
00:47:04,710 --> 00:47:02,079
these things get interrelated and that's

1305
00:47:05,349 --> 00:47:04,720
one thing that just keeps getting

1306
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,359
hammered

1307
00:47:10,550 --> 00:47:08,000
home to me over and over again over the

1308
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:10,560
years that i've been doing all kinds of

1309
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:13,119
paranormal and metaphysical research is

1310
00:47:17,190 --> 00:47:15,280
that

1311
00:47:18,790 --> 00:47:17,200
all of these things our dreams our

1312
00:47:22,270 --> 00:47:18,800
psychic experiences

1313
00:47:25,349 --> 00:47:22,280
our physical experiences and

1314
00:47:28,710 --> 00:47:25,359
investigations all of these things

1315
00:47:30,230 --> 00:47:28,720
bleed into each other and have a lot to

1316
00:47:31,670 --> 00:47:30,240
tell us about

1317
00:47:33,589 --> 00:47:31,680
how we're interacting with other

1318
00:47:36,549 --> 00:47:33,599
dimensional realities

1319
00:47:38,069 --> 00:47:36,559
so i think it's important to take what i

1320
00:47:41,109 --> 00:47:38,079
call a renaissance man

1321
00:47:43,910 --> 00:47:41,119
renaissance woman approach uh

1322
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:43,920
and that's to be as well versed as

1323
00:47:47,910 --> 00:47:44,559
possible

1324
00:47:50,950 --> 00:47:47,920
in many different areas oh i agree

1325
00:47:52,790 --> 00:47:50,960
you never know when these topics are

1326
00:47:54,790 --> 00:47:52,800
going to coincide and well

1327
00:47:55,910 --> 00:47:54,800
and in a lot of cases they always

1328
00:47:57,589 --> 00:47:55,920
coincide

1329
00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:57,599
but when you have a little bit of

1330
00:48:01,270 --> 00:47:59,200
information

1331
00:48:03,109 --> 00:48:01,280
on a lot of different topics you might

1332
00:48:04,790 --> 00:48:03,119
not be quite a specialist in everything

1333
00:48:06,630 --> 00:48:04,800
but if you're a jack of all trades you

1334
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,640
got a little bit of knowledge

1335
00:48:13,030 --> 00:48:09,680
to start picking and piecemealing from

1336
00:48:15,829 --> 00:48:13,040
it really does help and certainly

1337
00:48:16,230 --> 00:48:15,839
taking a broad perspective has propelled

1338
00:48:20,069 --> 00:48:16,240
me

1339
00:48:23,510 --> 00:48:20,079
in my

1340
00:48:26,950 --> 00:48:23,520
research over the years and that all

1341
00:48:28,309 --> 00:48:26,960
that can lead to specialization uh in

1342
00:48:32,470 --> 00:48:28,319
certain fields there

1343
00:48:35,829 --> 00:48:32,480
are some areas of these um topics that

1344
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:35,839
i've concentrated more on than others

1345
00:48:38,470 --> 00:48:36,800
just

1346
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:38,480
because of my own interests and also

1347
00:48:41,829 --> 00:48:40,880
just the sheer weight of the material

1348
00:48:45,270 --> 00:48:41,839
and

1349
00:48:48,790 --> 00:48:45,280
the prominence in very broad-based

1350
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:48,800
common experiences it's just

1351
00:48:54,150 --> 00:48:51,920
ongoing fascinating research i was

1352
00:48:56,790 --> 00:48:54,160
over in england a few weeks ago i was a

1353
00:48:58,790 --> 00:48:56,800
speaker at the sixth annual exo politics

1354
00:49:02,069 --> 00:48:58,800
conference there

1355
00:49:05,030 --> 00:49:02,079
and i was struck by the

1356
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:05,040
devotion to the subject of consciousness

1357
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:08,000
because you know ufos

1358
00:49:13,190 --> 00:49:12,079
is a field that is so heavy on the nuts

1359
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:13,200
and bolts side

1360
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:16,800
and disclosure and and hard evidence

1361
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,559
you know crashed craft physical bodies

1362
00:49:25,190 --> 00:49:22,079
things like that

1363
00:49:28,390 --> 00:49:25,200
and to have so many presentations

1364
00:49:30,390 --> 00:49:28,400
either devoted entirely or heavily to

1365
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,400
the nature of interdimensional

1366
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:32,640
interactions and the role of

1367
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:33,520
consciousness

1368
00:49:38,549 --> 00:49:36,960
it it was really astounding and enough

1369
00:49:40,150 --> 00:49:38,559
that we haven't had that here in north

1370
00:49:43,990 --> 00:49:40,160
america in the united states

1371
00:49:47,829 --> 00:49:44,000
but it's often been very much in the

1372
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,839
background so some very encouraging

1373
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:49,119
trends out there

1374
00:49:53,109 --> 00:49:52,079
across the board more and more people

1375
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,119
who are

1376
00:49:56,150 --> 00:49:54,720
crypto hunters and paranormal

1377
00:49:59,030 --> 00:49:56,160
investigators

1378
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:59,040
uh taking interdimensionality into

1379
00:50:02,150 --> 00:50:00,079
consideration

1380
00:50:03,990 --> 00:50:02,160
it's not the whole picture but it's an

1381
00:50:05,910 --> 00:50:04,000
important part of the picture

1382
00:50:07,270 --> 00:50:05,920
you know some time ago i spent a little

1383
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:07,280
bit of time in the field with

1384
00:50:11,270 --> 00:50:09,680
brian seat she's one of my favorite

1385
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:11,280
people to investigate with

1386
00:50:17,829 --> 00:50:15,119
and uh a cryptozoologist in pennsylvania

1387
00:50:20,309 --> 00:50:17,839
and uh i know brian and perry yes and i

1388
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,319
agree with you fabulous researchers

1389
00:50:23,990 --> 00:50:23,119
i get a little stubborn sometimes and uh

1390
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:24,000
about uh

1391
00:50:26,790 --> 00:50:25,200
certain things and i get a little

1392
00:50:28,630 --> 00:50:26,800
frustrated when i just can't figure out

1393
00:50:30,950 --> 00:50:28,640
and brian always says

1394
00:50:32,150 --> 00:50:30,960
always pulls me aside and says to me

1395
00:50:33,750 --> 00:50:32,160
sean

1396
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:33,760
you just got to think outside the box a

1397
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:35,680
little bit just step back

1398
00:50:39,510 --> 00:50:37,440
and think outside the box i'm like i

1399
00:50:40,870 --> 00:50:39,520
know i know i know and brian's always

1400
00:50:42,790 --> 00:50:40,880
the one who reminds me of that we have

1401
00:50:43,910 --> 00:50:42,800
conversations that are kind of gearing

1402
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:43,920
around you know

1403
00:50:48,950 --> 00:50:47,440
thinking uh and other uh other forms or

1404
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,960
other possibilities he's so

1405
00:50:52,710 --> 00:50:50,559
so good at it and he's such a good

1406
00:50:54,870 --> 00:50:52,720
researcher i just had to name drop them

1407
00:50:57,990 --> 00:50:54,880
there brian you're uh

1408
00:50:59,510 --> 00:50:58,000
you're a great dude yeah and brian uh

1409
00:51:01,270 --> 00:50:59,520
certainly deserves that he and terry

1410
00:51:01,990 --> 00:51:01,280
have been in the field a long time oh

1411
00:51:04,069 --> 00:51:02,000
yes

1412
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:04,079
they are two of the most thorough

1413
00:51:08,710 --> 00:51:05,359
researchers

1414
00:51:11,510 --> 00:51:08,720
i have known in my career and

1415
00:51:12,790 --> 00:51:11,520
um really doing good work out there in

1416
00:51:14,950 --> 00:51:12,800
the field

1417
00:51:16,549 --> 00:51:14,960
very very good work and their center of

1418
00:51:17,750 --> 00:51:16,559
crypto studies

1419
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:17,760
i just love following everything they're

1420
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:19,680
doing they're doing some the

1421
00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:22,000
the butler county gargoyle lawn is that

1422
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:23,440
was that the gargoyle we were talking

1423
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:24,160
about

1424
00:51:28,950 --> 00:51:27,359
yeah was awesome just some

1425
00:51:30,630 --> 00:51:28,960
strange things out there that are just

1426
00:51:33,030 --> 00:51:30,640
starting to come to light

1427
00:51:34,390 --> 00:51:33,040
and uh he i just talked to him on the

1428
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:34,400
phone the other day he's invited me to

1429
00:51:39,030 --> 00:51:36,319
come out to the siege library

1430
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,040
as he likes to call they have a wealth

1431
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:41,520
of information

1432
00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:44,880
yeah and they do they really do

1433
00:51:47,910 --> 00:51:46,400
and they're very willing to share it

1434
00:51:49,510 --> 00:51:47,920
with investigators

1435
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:49,520
brian's always been one of the first

1436
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:51,119
persons to contact me

1437
00:51:55,589 --> 00:51:54,079
and volunteer whatever information he

1438
00:51:56,390 --> 00:51:55,599
thinks will be helpful to one of my

1439
00:51:58,069 --> 00:51:56,400
projects

1440
00:52:02,309 --> 00:51:58,079
you will find a lot of my books there

1441
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:03,670
most definitely and you've got a lot of

1442
00:52:07,030 --> 00:52:05,839
them to put out there what 59 books or

1443
00:52:10,309 --> 00:52:07,040
more now

1444
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:10,319
59 with number 60 uh in the works

1445
00:52:16,069 --> 00:52:13,680
and visionary living which is

1446
00:52:18,630 --> 00:52:16,079
my own company that i incorporated

1447
00:52:22,309 --> 00:52:18,640
almost 15 years ago back in 2000

1448
00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:22,319
might have been 2001. with the intention

1449
00:52:27,910 --> 00:52:25,520
of doing events and media and whatnot it

1450
00:52:29,750 --> 00:52:27,920
wasn't until the last few years that i

1451
00:52:31,670 --> 00:52:29,760
really got it off the ground because the

1452
00:52:33,430 --> 00:52:31,680
marketplace changed so much to make

1453
00:52:35,430 --> 00:52:33,440
independent publishing just really

1454
00:52:38,230 --> 00:52:35,440
viable

1455
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:38,240
i had originally intended it for a work

1456
00:52:44,230 --> 00:52:41,119
that major publishers would not

1457
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:44,240
be very interested in and now

1458
00:52:49,109 --> 00:52:47,040
i'm much more interested in in doing all

1459
00:52:50,549 --> 00:52:49,119
of my work this way

1460
00:52:52,230 --> 00:52:50,559
still have a few things out there with

1461
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:52,240
other publishers

1462
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:58,390
a way to get more work out faster to the

1463
00:53:02,150 --> 00:52:59,520
public

1464
00:53:02,790 --> 00:53:02,160
and through good distribution channels

1465
00:53:05,349 --> 00:53:02,800
and

1466
00:53:07,030 --> 00:53:05,359
now i'm also starting to publish works

1467
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,040
by other authors as well

1468
00:53:10,870 --> 00:53:09,119
slowly because i've still got a lot of

1469
00:53:14,309 --> 00:53:10,880
my own to deal with

1470
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:14,319
but the marketplace has just changed and

1471
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:16,000
people are getting their information in

1472
00:53:20,630 --> 00:53:18,160
different ways and

1473
00:53:21,430 --> 00:53:20,640
the distribution channels now are suited

1474
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:21,440
to

1475
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,720
and sometimes the big guys can't do that

1476
00:53:30,390 --> 00:53:28,319
very well

1477
00:53:32,150 --> 00:53:30,400
yeah i i prefer to get my books

1478
00:53:32,950 --> 00:53:32,160
electronically now mainly because my

1479
00:53:35,030 --> 00:53:32,960
wife

1480
00:53:36,950 --> 00:53:35,040
refuses to let me get any more

1481
00:53:40,230 --> 00:53:36,960
bookshelves

1482
00:53:40,630 --> 00:53:40,240
or build any more piles of books so it's

1483
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:40,640
all

1484
00:53:45,910 --> 00:53:44,240
anymore

1485
00:53:47,910 --> 00:53:45,920
well i know what you mean sean because

1486
00:53:49,829 --> 00:53:47,920
it at one time

1487
00:53:51,190 --> 00:53:49,839
back in the day i had this ambition that

1488
00:53:52,950 --> 00:53:51,200
i was going to be the metaphysical

1489
00:53:55,670 --> 00:53:52,960
library of congress

1490
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:55,680
and at the peak of my collection i had

1491
00:53:57,910 --> 00:53:57,520
about eight thousand volumes well they

1492
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:57,920
just

1493
00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:01,200
literally took over the house i had um

1494
00:54:07,030 --> 00:54:04,800
seven foot oak bookcases everywhere and

1495
00:54:07,990 --> 00:54:07,040
uh it was quite an impressive collection

1496
00:54:11,589 --> 00:54:08,000
but as i've

1497
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:11,599
um moved to different

1498
00:54:18,309 --> 00:54:15,359
domiciles um i couldn't accommodate

1499
00:54:19,430 --> 00:54:18,319
everything out there and out there on

1500
00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:19,440
the shelves and

1501
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:21,040
i had to start winnowing down my

1502
00:54:24,710 --> 00:54:22,559
collection so it's it's

1503
00:54:25,829 --> 00:54:24,720
much nicer to have digital copies of

1504
00:54:29,109 --> 00:54:25,839
things now

1505
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:29,119
it is especially they all put an ipad

1506
00:54:33,190 --> 00:54:31,920
you know well you know i was uh you know

1507
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:33,200
i actually

1508
00:54:37,030 --> 00:54:36,400
got over to my bookshelves the other day

1509
00:54:38,950 --> 00:54:37,040
when i knew

1510
00:54:40,870 --> 00:54:38,960
rosemary was coming on i started

1511
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,880
counting how many of her books you know

1512
00:54:45,510 --> 00:54:42,960
i've got 35 of your books

1513
00:54:47,370 --> 00:54:45,520
so i feel like gosh yeah and i feel bad

1514
00:54:50,829 --> 00:54:47,380
because i didn't realize you had 59.

1515
00:55:02,470 --> 00:54:50,839
[Laughter]

1516
00:55:05,829 --> 00:55:02,480
what's the matter with you i know i mean

1517
00:55:07,750 --> 00:55:05,839
i feel bad about that now

1518
00:55:09,349 --> 00:55:07,760
anyway you know you you've got this new

1519
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:09,359
book that you said you got coming out

1520
00:55:14,870 --> 00:55:11,760
the dream work for visionary living

1521
00:55:16,710 --> 00:55:14,880
uh yeah that uh that

1522
00:55:19,030 --> 00:55:16,720
has sparked my interest a little bit

1523
00:55:21,750 --> 00:55:19,040
because you you have it listed as a

1524
00:55:23,990 --> 00:55:21,760
practical guide the proactive dreaming

1525
00:55:26,950 --> 00:55:24,000
uh you've got a workshop that you

1526
00:55:30,069 --> 00:55:26,960
incorporate with this as well

1527
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:30,079
i do and the book just came out right

1528
00:55:34,789 --> 00:55:31,359
after labor day

1529
00:55:37,109 --> 00:55:34,799
and i debuted in fact at

1530
00:55:39,829 --> 00:55:37,119
some dream events that i did out in vail

1531
00:55:42,069 --> 00:55:39,839
colorado for the vail symposium

1532
00:55:43,589 --> 00:55:42,079
and since then i've given some other

1533
00:55:46,470 --> 00:55:43,599
dream workshops with this

1534
00:55:46,789 --> 00:55:46,480
as the foundation guidebook dreams have

1535
00:55:48,789 --> 00:55:46,799
been

1536
00:55:50,069 --> 00:55:48,799
so important to me throughout my life

1537
00:55:53,030 --> 00:55:50,079
because very

1538
00:55:55,030 --> 00:55:53,040
i was very young when i discovered that

1539
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:55,040
psychic dreaming is real

1540
00:56:01,829 --> 00:55:58,319
and this just fascinated me and

1541
00:56:03,589 --> 00:56:01,839
propelled me to explore my own dreams

1542
00:56:06,710 --> 00:56:03,599
and so i started studying them

1543
00:56:09,190 --> 00:56:06,720
and from the psychology perspective

1544
00:56:12,069 --> 00:56:09,200
and from the experiential perspective

1545
00:56:14,950 --> 00:56:12,079
mythology the ancient practices

1546
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:14,960
so over my entire life and career dreams

1547
00:56:20,230 --> 00:56:15,760
have been

1548
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:20,240
an important component of creativity

1549
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:24,160
for well-being and also for contact

1550
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:26,160
experiences

1551
00:56:29,349 --> 00:56:28,319
what i did with dreamwork for visionary

1552
00:56:32,549 --> 00:56:29,359
living

1553
00:56:35,829 --> 00:56:32,559
is put together all of those

1554
00:56:38,950 --> 00:56:35,839
extraordinary dimensions of dreams

1555
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:38,960
that it's not just about

1556
00:56:43,109 --> 00:56:41,040
understanding our ordinary dreams and we

1557
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:43,119
do have to understand our ordinary

1558
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,760
daily life dreams in order to fully

1559
00:56:51,510 --> 00:56:48,160
appreciate the extraordinary elements

1560
00:56:53,109 --> 00:56:51,520
but it goes into how we can use dreams

1561
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:53,119
on a proactive basis

1562
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:56,480
for creativity and inspiration for

1563
00:57:02,710 --> 00:56:59,520
healing for navigating through

1564
00:57:05,990 --> 00:57:02,720
turning points in life

1565
00:57:08,390 --> 00:57:06,000
how to improve our lucid dreaming how to

1566
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:08,400
explore the shared dreaming landscape

1567
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:11,599
that is dreaming with other people

1568
00:57:15,829 --> 00:57:14,559
astral traveling and dreams precognitive

1569
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:15,839
dreams

1570
00:57:20,950 --> 00:57:20,160
well dream visits from the dead that's a

1571
00:57:24,870 --> 00:57:20,960
whole separate

1572
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:24,880
uh book in and of itself

1573
00:57:31,510 --> 00:57:28,079
and all the chapters have what i call

1574
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:31,520
dream labs to them uh several

1575
00:57:37,829 --> 00:57:34,640
exercises uh with

1576
00:57:41,190 --> 00:57:37,839
a suggested format for how to

1577
00:57:42,230 --> 00:57:41,200
invite our dreams to give us valuable

1578
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:42,240
information

1579
00:57:49,829 --> 00:57:46,319
for our needs at the moment and

1580
00:57:51,510 --> 00:57:49,839
people are really quite amazed

1581
00:57:53,430 --> 00:57:51,520
when they start working with their

1582
00:57:55,270 --> 00:57:53,440
dreams

1583
00:57:57,190 --> 00:57:55,280
i think you know the average person if

1584
00:57:59,270 --> 00:57:57,200
they pay any attention to dreams at all

1585
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:59,280
it's it's one of puzzlement it's they

1586
00:58:01,829 --> 00:58:01,200
don't quite understand the bizarre

1587
00:58:04,870 --> 00:58:01,839
imagery

1588
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:04,880
and repeating themes sometimes but

1589
00:58:09,030 --> 00:58:06,720
once you understand the language of

1590
00:58:14,069 --> 00:58:09,040
dreams and how they function

1591
00:58:17,829 --> 00:58:16,390
you know i am fascinated by your

1592
00:58:19,349 --> 00:58:17,839
explanation

1593
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:19,359
and the use of dreams you know in

1594
00:58:21,750 --> 00:58:21,119
particular now i saw where you had

1595
00:58:23,109 --> 00:58:21,760
mentioned

1596
00:58:25,270 --> 00:58:23,119
now i haven't read the book yet and i

1597
00:58:26,630 --> 00:58:25,280
plan to read it but you had mentioned on

1598
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:26,640
your website

1599
00:58:32,710 --> 00:58:30,240
about dream animals and

1600
00:58:34,230 --> 00:58:32,720
i was just wondering if this would be

1601
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:34,240
similar to

1602
00:58:39,829 --> 00:58:37,359
uh shamanic journeying in particular

1603
00:58:41,270 --> 00:58:39,839
lower world shamanic journaling where

1604
00:58:43,030 --> 00:58:41,280
they use what they call

1605
00:58:46,789 --> 00:58:43,040
or to connect with what they call a

1606
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:46,799
power animal is it is it similar to that

1607
00:58:51,510 --> 00:58:50,319
it can be uh in proactive dreaming and

1608
00:58:54,870 --> 00:58:51,520
dream journeying

1609
00:58:56,470 --> 00:58:54,880
and we can do that through incubation by

1610
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:56,480
setting intention

1611
00:59:01,990 --> 00:58:59,760
um some of these dreams do take on uh

1612
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:02,000
similar characteristics to a shamanic

1613
00:59:07,589 --> 00:59:03,599
journey where

1614
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:07,599
totemic and power animals provide

1615
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,720
guidance and and information and

1616
00:59:15,589 --> 00:59:12,720
spiritual assistance

1617
00:59:16,630 --> 00:59:15,599
and animals function that way in a lot

1618
00:59:20,230 --> 00:59:16,640
of our dreams

1619
00:59:23,230 --> 00:59:20,240
they often represent um

1620
00:59:24,470 --> 00:59:23,240
as dream symbols they they represent the

1621
00:59:27,109 --> 00:59:24,480
characteristics

1622
00:59:28,549 --> 00:59:27,119
of those animals and they say something

1623
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:28,559
to us about

1624
00:59:34,069 --> 00:59:31,599
the context of the dream so

1625
00:59:35,510 --> 00:59:34,079
you know dogs might be protective or

1626
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:35,520
guardian

1627
00:59:43,670 --> 00:59:39,680
in nature foxes would be clever and fly

1628
00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:43,680
and each you know animal having its

1629
00:59:48,710 --> 00:59:45,440
particular characteristic

1630
00:59:54,549 --> 00:59:48,720
which says something about the dream uh

1631
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:57,270
okay and the reason i asked this was

1632
01:00:00,829 --> 00:59:58,400
that

1633
01:00:02,710 --> 01:00:00,839
over the past six months or so i've been

1634
01:00:05,990 --> 01:00:02,720
consistently

1635
01:00:09,510 --> 01:00:06,000
references

1636
01:00:10,309 --> 01:00:09,520
to owls and i've talked to sean about

1637
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:10,319
this

1638
01:00:14,309 --> 01:00:12,559
in my research writing and just regular

1639
01:00:16,390 --> 01:00:14,319
life and in august

1640
01:00:18,390 --> 01:00:16,400
i was told that shamanic journeying may

1641
01:00:21,589 --> 01:00:18,400
be a good source for my answers

1642
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:21,599
now so i began to process and you know

1643
01:00:25,430 --> 01:00:22,480
so far it's been

1644
01:00:27,270 --> 01:00:25,440
enlightening and i eventually plan to

1645
01:00:28,309 --> 01:00:27,280
use it for healing purposes with my

1646
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,319
clients

1647
01:00:31,510 --> 01:00:30,000
but now i you know i can't say for

1648
01:00:33,510 --> 01:00:31,520
certain that

1649
01:00:34,870 --> 01:00:33,520
you know dreams come into play with this

1650
01:00:36,390 --> 01:00:34,880
i you know i find it difficult to

1651
01:00:38,230 --> 01:00:36,400
remember dreams

1652
01:00:39,750 --> 01:00:38,240
but uh if i want to explore that

1653
01:00:44,470 --> 01:00:39,760
particular avenue

1654
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,390
well about dreams in general are about

1655
01:00:55,349 --> 01:00:48,480
the owls well

1656
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:57,829
the best things to do to explore dreams

1657
01:01:01,270 --> 01:00:58,799
are to first of all

1658
01:01:02,390 --> 01:01:01,280
understand how dreams speak to you

1659
01:01:05,190 --> 01:01:02,400
uniquely and

1660
01:01:05,670 --> 01:01:05,200
dreams share a common ground uh carl

1661
01:01:07,750 --> 01:01:05,680
young

1662
01:01:09,589 --> 01:01:07,760
explored this quite well with his

1663
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:09,599
concept of the collective unconscious

1664
01:01:13,510 --> 01:01:10,319
and with

1665
01:01:16,710 --> 01:01:13,520
archetypal figures and dreams he

1666
01:01:19,349 --> 01:01:16,720
he went far beyond the associations

1667
01:01:22,069 --> 01:01:19,359
that freud gave to dreams and seeing

1668
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:22,079
dreams as connecting us to this

1669
01:01:26,309 --> 01:01:24,480
vast pool of consciousness shared by

1670
01:01:28,230 --> 01:01:26,319
human beings throughout history

1671
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:28,240
and then to something transcendent

1672
01:01:34,549 --> 01:01:30,720
beyond that

1673
01:01:36,870 --> 01:01:34,559
so um when we start working with dreams

1674
01:01:38,390 --> 01:01:36,880
just paying attention to them every

1675
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:38,400
night

1676
01:01:42,710 --> 01:01:40,799
and writing them down and and

1677
01:01:45,270 --> 01:01:42,720
interpreting them

1678
01:01:47,349 --> 01:01:45,280
that begins and how can literally an

1679
01:01:50,470 --> 01:01:47,359
alchemical process

1680
01:01:53,589 --> 01:01:50,480
uh of unfoldment in which

1681
01:01:56,950 --> 01:01:53,599
we start to explore our own inner depths

1682
01:01:59,910 --> 01:01:56,960
we come to a greater understanding of um

1683
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:59,920
how dreams are speaking to us dreams are

1684
01:02:02,710 --> 01:02:00,319
about

1685
01:02:03,829 --> 01:02:02,720
balance in in life they reflect to us

1686
01:02:06,309 --> 01:02:03,839
our true feelings

1687
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:06,319
about how we're doing in life and how we

1688
01:02:09,510 --> 01:02:07,680
think we're doing in life

1689
01:02:11,910 --> 01:02:09,520
and then they also connect us to these

1690
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:11,920
transcendent realms

1691
01:02:15,270 --> 01:02:14,319
so the way to get started is to just

1692
01:02:18,549 --> 01:02:15,280
start paying to

1693
01:02:21,829 --> 01:02:18,559
attention to dreams on an everyday basis

1694
01:02:24,950 --> 01:02:21,839
and realizing that they speak

1695
01:02:27,829 --> 01:02:24,960
in an intuitive holistic way um

1696
01:02:29,670 --> 01:02:27,839
very seldom in a literal way so you have

1697
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:29,680
to do a lot of right brain work you

1698
01:02:33,430 --> 01:02:31,200
kind of have to switch your thinking

1699
01:02:36,950 --> 01:02:33,440
modes and

1700
01:02:38,870 --> 01:02:36,960
they tell us a lot about um

1701
01:02:41,270 --> 01:02:38,880
it's kind of like a radar and barometer

1702
01:02:44,710 --> 01:02:41,280
at the same time

1703
01:02:47,750 --> 01:02:44,720
and from there we get

1704
01:02:51,829 --> 01:02:47,760
these other more subtle

1705
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:51,839
levels of spiritual guidance

1706
01:02:57,349 --> 01:02:54,799
that the dream is like an onion there's

1707
01:03:00,150 --> 01:02:57,359
an obvious personal meaning to us

1708
01:03:01,589 --> 01:03:00,160
then there are these more subtle

1709
01:03:06,230 --> 01:03:01,599
spiritual meanings

1710
01:03:08,789 --> 01:03:06,240
of dreams to us and

1711
01:03:11,029 --> 01:03:08,799
that's where the real enrichment comes

1712
01:03:14,710 --> 01:03:11,039
in

1713
01:03:17,510 --> 01:03:14,720
book i uh it does

1714
01:03:18,630 --> 01:03:17,520
it does fascinate me you know when i

1715
01:03:21,270 --> 01:03:18,640
started reading this

1716
01:03:22,789 --> 01:03:21,280
you know i i i have thought about

1717
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:22,799
looking into dreams

1718
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:25,280
as far as what i do and you know to see

1719
01:03:27,750 --> 01:03:26,240
what

1720
01:03:28,870 --> 01:03:27,760
you know maybe i could do it but i am

1721
01:03:29,670 --> 01:03:28,880
definitely going to get your book and

1722
01:03:32,470 --> 01:03:29,680
read that

1723
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:32,480
now you i know that you are believer in

1724
01:03:37,829 --> 01:03:33,760
angels

1725
01:03:39,990 --> 01:03:37,839
and is is that a result of a personal

1726
01:03:42,309 --> 01:03:40,000
revelation

1727
01:03:44,549 --> 01:03:42,319
well what some of my early childhood

1728
01:03:48,950 --> 01:03:44,559
experiences were with angels

1729
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:48,960
and i always believed in them as a kid

1730
01:03:54,950 --> 01:03:52,640
some of it was from religious exposure

1731
01:03:57,029 --> 01:03:54,960
i my parents were very active in the

1732
01:03:58,950 --> 01:03:57,039
methodist church

1733
01:04:01,430 --> 01:03:58,960
so you know i got the sunday schooling

1734
01:04:03,270 --> 01:04:01,440
and all that and um

1735
01:04:05,270 --> 01:04:03,280
you know there's an emphasis on angels

1736
01:04:07,589 --> 01:04:05,280
at christmas time but to me

1737
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:07,599
angels went far beyond that they seemed

1738
01:04:13,829 --> 01:04:09,280
to be around all the time

1739
01:04:16,309 --> 01:04:13,839
and i had pleasant experiences feeling

1740
01:04:20,470 --> 01:04:16,319
angels around me when i was a kid

1741
01:04:22,950 --> 01:04:20,480
so as i got older and began studying

1742
01:04:24,710 --> 01:04:22,960
contact experiences of all kinds i was

1743
01:04:28,309 --> 01:04:24,720
particularly interested

1744
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:28,319
in the literature involving angels

1745
01:04:33,109 --> 01:04:31,200
and found many experiences that

1746
01:04:34,950 --> 01:04:33,119
corroborated some of my own

1747
01:04:36,390 --> 01:04:34,960
and also revealed patterns of

1748
01:04:38,390 --> 01:04:36,400
experiences that

1749
01:04:40,789 --> 01:04:38,400
human beings have had throughout the

1750
01:04:43,430 --> 01:04:40,799
ages not just with angels but with

1751
01:04:45,430 --> 01:04:43,440
angel-like beings you know helping

1752
01:04:49,109 --> 01:04:45,440
beings who seem to be intermediaries

1753
01:04:51,270 --> 01:04:49,119
between human beings and the godhead

1754
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,280
we've gone through cycles in our

1755
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:54,079
interest in angels and even an evolution

1756
01:04:57,510 --> 01:04:55,920
in our beliefs about angels from the

1757
01:05:00,630 --> 01:04:57,520
biblical times

1758
01:05:02,870 --> 01:05:00,640
uh where the average person

1759
01:05:05,349 --> 01:05:02,880
didn't believe that i mean believe that

1760
01:05:07,589 --> 01:05:05,359
angels rarely visited people unless they

1761
01:05:08,789 --> 01:05:07,599
were sent by god usually for some sort

1762
01:05:12,470 --> 01:05:08,799
of

1763
01:05:15,829 --> 01:05:12,480
disciplinary or big purpose

1764
01:05:18,630 --> 01:05:15,839
to today where

1765
01:05:20,789 --> 01:05:18,640
many people believe in angels and that

1766
01:05:22,950 --> 01:05:20,799
they are around us all the time

1767
01:05:25,589 --> 01:05:22,960
and are very accessible to us for

1768
01:05:28,789 --> 01:05:25,599
spiritual guidance

1769
01:05:31,750 --> 01:05:28,799
um well you know i i i

1770
01:05:32,950 --> 01:05:31,760
i've got my own theory on angels now let

1771
01:05:35,190 --> 01:05:32,960
me i'm just gonna

1772
01:05:35,990 --> 01:05:35,200
mention it to you and just tell me what

1773
01:05:39,510 --> 01:05:36,000
you think i

1774
01:05:41,910 --> 01:05:39,520
i do believe that angels are celestial

1775
01:05:44,470 --> 01:05:41,920
energy that are attached to us at birth

1776
01:05:46,390 --> 01:05:44,480
and and i think it grows develops and

1777
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:46,400
matures as we get older

1778
01:05:51,349 --> 01:05:48,400
i mean to the point where each of us has

1779
01:05:52,870 --> 01:05:51,359
the ability to transform that energy

1780
01:05:56,789 --> 01:05:52,880
into a conscious being

1781
01:05:58,549 --> 01:05:56,799
capable of connecting to a divine source

1782
01:06:00,309 --> 01:05:58,559
now you know of course what the divine

1783
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,319
source is that's a question

1784
01:06:04,309 --> 01:06:02,240
that may never be answered but even

1785
01:06:05,430 --> 01:06:04,319
understood but i feel that each person

1786
01:06:07,270 --> 01:06:05,440
has

1787
01:06:09,029 --> 01:06:07,280
an original description for divine

1788
01:06:11,270 --> 01:06:09,039
source regardless of any

1789
01:06:13,109 --> 01:06:11,280
religious indoctrination it's just a

1790
01:06:15,430 --> 01:06:13,119
matter of making available

1791
01:06:16,950 --> 01:06:15,440
and properly using it for your journey

1792
01:06:19,990 --> 01:06:16,960
throughout life and beyond

1793
01:06:21,029 --> 01:06:20,000
that's that's what i teach people that

1794
01:06:24,470 --> 01:06:21,039
come to me

1795
01:06:26,069 --> 01:06:24,480
uh or ask me about angels

1796
01:06:28,230 --> 01:06:26,079
do you think i'm on the right track

1797
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:28,240
there

1798
01:06:32,390 --> 01:06:31,920
it certainly certainly is a valid track

1799
01:06:34,950 --> 01:06:32,400
and

1800
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:34,960
you know i i think that there are many

1801
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:37,039
approaches to our understanding of of

1802
01:06:40,309 --> 01:06:39,200
these beings in terms of what exactly

1803
01:06:41,990 --> 01:06:40,319
they are

1804
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:42,000
and the way you've described them

1805
01:06:46,549 --> 01:06:43,520
certainly fits within

1806
01:06:49,190 --> 01:06:46,559
i would say the broad concepts that

1807
01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:49,200
most people have about angels some of

1808
01:06:51,990 --> 01:06:50,720
our beliefs have gotten to be quite

1809
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:52,000
specific

1810
01:06:55,190 --> 01:06:53,920
in western culture but when you go

1811
01:06:58,230 --> 01:06:55,200
beyond that

1812
01:07:00,549 --> 01:06:58,240
the picture broadens out quite a bit

1813
01:07:01,829 --> 01:07:00,559
and there do seem to be these celestial

1814
01:07:04,430 --> 01:07:01,839
or heavenly

1815
01:07:05,829 --> 01:07:04,440
uh vibrations or emanations or

1816
01:07:07,910 --> 01:07:05,839
personifications

1817
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,920
that have interacted with human beings

1818
01:07:11,990 --> 01:07:10,079
throughout our entire history

1819
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:12,000
and they they seem to have very

1820
01:07:16,309 --> 01:07:14,160
consistent functions

1821
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:16,319
i think we've tended to personalize them

1822
01:07:20,789 --> 01:07:17,520
a lot

1823
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:20,799
in recent times and i by recent times

1824
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:24,960
i'm saying since the mid-20th century

1825
01:07:29,190 --> 01:07:28,319
and i think that's just part of the

1826
01:07:31,750 --> 01:07:29,200
nature of

1827
01:07:34,150 --> 01:07:31,760
of our our our ways of trying to

1828
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:34,160
interact with something that

1829
01:07:42,549 --> 01:07:37,920
um has no known exact

1830
01:07:47,430 --> 01:07:42,559
provable form but seems to be present

1831
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:47,440
and capable of manifesting to people

1832
01:07:54,390 --> 01:07:51,119
um i am

1833
01:07:57,750 --> 01:07:54,400
do you think there's an in any instances

1834
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:57,760
where angels and benevolent

1835
01:08:03,589 --> 01:07:59,520
beings or demons like people called

1836
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:03,599
demons seem to be one the same

1837
01:08:06,870 --> 01:08:05,520
there certainly is a blurring and an

1838
01:08:11,349 --> 01:08:06,880
overlap

1839
01:08:14,390 --> 01:08:11,359
um and part of the thing about demons is

1840
01:08:17,189 --> 01:08:14,400
we really have to broaden our outlook on

1841
01:08:21,189 --> 01:08:17,199
demons as well

1842
01:08:24,229 --> 01:08:21,199
we've come to think of them as

1843
01:08:27,269 --> 01:08:24,239
a very narrowly defined kind of entity

1844
01:08:31,189 --> 01:08:27,279
that's completely evil

1845
01:08:34,550 --> 01:08:31,199
and under satanic leadership

1846
01:08:36,390 --> 01:08:34,560
and has certain activities and purposes

1847
01:08:40,070 --> 01:08:36,400
for subversion of the soul

1848
01:08:40,950 --> 01:08:40,080
and you know the horrible tormenting of

1849
01:08:43,269 --> 01:08:40,960
people

1850
01:08:44,470 --> 01:08:43,279
but in the ancient views and this would

1851
01:08:48,149 --> 01:08:44,480
be globally

1852
01:08:49,990 --> 01:08:48,159
uh in the spirit lore of whatever

1853
01:08:53,349 --> 01:08:50,000
culture you look at

1854
01:08:53,829 --> 01:08:53,359
there are these classes of intermediary

1855
01:08:57,030 --> 01:08:53,839
slash

1856
01:08:59,110 --> 01:08:57,040
interfering beings

1857
01:09:01,910 --> 01:08:59,120
which we could class as demons and they

1858
01:09:04,950 --> 01:09:01,920
range from even

1859
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:04,960
good to to the evil

1860
01:09:08,789 --> 01:09:07,920
that there were entities that could be

1861
01:09:11,030 --> 01:09:08,799
called upon

1862
01:09:11,990 --> 01:09:11,040
for for help they weren't angels but

1863
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:12,000
they were helping

1864
01:09:15,110 --> 01:09:14,000
you know could help in various

1865
01:09:18,870 --> 01:09:15,120
capacities

1866
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:18,880
ambivalent ones tricky ones

1867
01:09:22,309 --> 01:09:21,199
malevolent ones and evil ones and

1868
01:09:26,070 --> 01:09:22,319
malevolent

1869
01:09:27,910 --> 01:09:26,080
um i define as you know hostile

1870
01:09:30,470 --> 01:09:27,920
possible intent you can be hostile

1871
01:09:33,749 --> 01:09:30,480
without being evil

1872
01:09:37,349 --> 01:09:33,759
so um the ancient

1873
01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:37,359
demonic universe was quite uh rich and

1874
01:09:42,550 --> 01:09:38,480
diverse

1875
01:09:45,829 --> 01:09:42,560
and um beings are described in

1876
01:09:47,189 --> 01:09:45,839
uh various compilations uh

1877
01:09:48,950 --> 01:09:47,199
that have been attempted over the

1878
01:09:52,390 --> 01:09:48,960
centuries of

1879
01:09:54,229 --> 01:09:52,400
kind of blending or overlapping in

1880
01:09:56,310 --> 01:09:54,239
characteristics

1881
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:56,320
a particular entity might be good here

1882
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:57,920
and bad there or

1883
01:10:02,630 --> 01:10:01,199
views of a change over time and we find

1884
01:10:05,910 --> 01:10:02,640
the same with angels

1885
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:05,920
that angels in ancient

1886
01:10:12,390 --> 01:10:09,360
accounts are often described as

1887
01:10:15,110 --> 01:10:12,400
hostile to people and

1888
01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:15,120
not a particularly benevolent

1889
01:10:17,910 --> 01:10:16,000
disposition

1890
01:10:20,470 --> 01:10:17,920
but yet they're still part of the angel

1891
01:10:23,590 --> 01:10:20,480
realm if you consider that the

1892
01:10:24,310 --> 01:10:23,600
the function of the angel realm is the

1893
01:10:26,550 --> 01:10:24,320
maintenance of

1894
01:10:29,669 --> 01:10:26,560
cosmic order this is a concept that

1895
01:10:31,510 --> 01:10:29,679
seems to be very consistent

1896
01:10:33,030 --> 01:10:31,520
with descriptions of angels and

1897
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:33,040
angel-like beings

1898
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,600
that their role is to maintain cosmic

1899
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:37,520
balance and order

1900
01:10:46,950 --> 01:10:44,630
that may involve situations where

1901
01:10:48,310 --> 01:10:46,960
they might be hostile to human beings

1902
01:10:50,550 --> 01:10:48,320
who are

1903
01:10:53,030 --> 01:10:50,560
upsetting the cosmic order and we

1904
01:10:56,470 --> 01:10:53,040
certainly find many accounts of that

1905
01:11:00,229 --> 01:10:56,480
from the the old

1906
01:11:03,270 --> 01:11:00,239
even from biblical times um in

1907
01:11:04,870 --> 01:11:03,280
um even in the bible and in

1908
01:11:07,030 --> 01:11:04,880
literature outside the bible the

1909
01:11:10,630 --> 01:11:07,040
ex-canonical literature and in

1910
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,640
the uh jewish angelology

1911
01:11:14,149 --> 01:11:12,800
and workable literature as well that

1912
01:11:17,030 --> 01:11:14,159
there are angels who

1913
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:17,040
are not kind of disposed toward people

1914
01:11:20,709 --> 01:11:18,080
and

1915
01:11:22,470 --> 01:11:20,719
that runs very much against the the

1916
01:11:24,950 --> 01:11:22,480
popular prevailing

1917
01:11:26,470 --> 01:11:24,960
view of angels of being all good all

1918
01:11:29,110 --> 01:11:26,480
benevolent

1919
01:11:30,630 --> 01:11:29,120
um almost to the point where it's kind

1920
01:11:34,390 --> 01:11:30,640
of syrupy

1921
01:11:37,750 --> 01:11:34,400
um and perhaps not very realistic

1922
01:11:39,990 --> 01:11:37,760
well you know in in there there was a tv

1923
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,000
show that started this past year and i i

1924
01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:42,000
forget the name of it but anyway i had

1925
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:43,520
been watching it what's that

1926
01:11:50,550 --> 01:11:47,520
it was called dominion yeah dominion um

1927
01:11:52,470 --> 01:11:50,560
the shirt kind of does convolute what

1928
01:11:54,470 --> 01:11:52,480
angels really are in my

1929
01:11:56,070 --> 01:11:54,480
in my thinking i know it's a lot of old

1930
01:12:00,630 --> 01:11:56,080
testament stuff there

1931
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:00,640
but it kind of blurs like you said

1932
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:04,080
what people think of it did you uh what

1933
01:12:08,310 --> 01:12:05,440
did you get out of the show

1934
01:12:09,110 --> 01:12:08,320
have you watched it i've watched a few

1935
01:12:12,630 --> 01:12:09,120
episodes

1936
01:12:14,470 --> 01:12:12,640
of it and i i didn't cotton to it as

1937
01:12:17,750 --> 01:12:14,480
well as i thought i might i was

1938
01:12:20,229 --> 01:12:17,760
looking forward to it as something that

1939
01:12:23,189 --> 01:12:20,239
kind of reset the you know the bar and

1940
01:12:25,189 --> 01:12:23,199
challenged prevailing uh beliefs about

1941
01:12:26,950 --> 01:12:25,199
angels to reveal some of their darker

1942
01:12:30,070 --> 01:12:26,960
nature but i found just

1943
01:12:31,189 --> 01:12:30,080
some of some of the characters uh kind

1944
01:12:33,990 --> 01:12:31,199
of uninteresting

1945
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:34,000
and also the plot was just kind of

1946
01:12:38,790 --> 01:12:35,280
tedious

1947
01:12:43,189 --> 01:12:38,800
so i haven't seen it in quite some time

1948
01:12:46,550 --> 01:12:43,199
the idea of hostile angels um

1949
01:12:49,590 --> 01:12:46,560
working against people is

1950
01:12:52,870 --> 01:12:49,600
certainly not new by any means but

1951
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:52,880
in the biblical portrayals of that um

1952
01:12:56,790 --> 01:12:54,640
angels are really ambivalent they're

1953
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:56,800
neutral and they're they're really

1954
01:13:02,229 --> 01:13:00,239
god's bouncers and and hit men

1955
01:13:03,669 --> 01:13:02,239
uh when they need to be and god's

1956
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:03,679
healers when they need to be

1957
01:13:07,669 --> 01:13:05,760
it's they're completely at the disposal

1958
01:13:09,750 --> 01:13:07,679
of the divine word

1959
01:13:12,390 --> 01:13:09,760
and you know we have the example of the

1960
01:13:15,270 --> 01:13:12,400
passover angel

1961
01:13:17,990 --> 01:13:15,280
who is directed to to slay the male

1962
01:13:19,470 --> 01:13:18,000
firstborns in every household

1963
01:13:21,669 --> 01:13:19,480
and who goes about doing so

1964
01:13:25,430 --> 01:13:21,679
dispassionately uh

1965
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:25,440
because that's that's the decree of

1966
01:13:29,590 --> 01:13:28,480
of uh of what you know they're ordered

1967
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:29,600
to do

1968
01:13:34,870 --> 01:13:32,239
and angels who have meted out warnings

1969
01:13:37,910 --> 01:13:36,709
then on the flip side of that you have

1970
01:13:40,790 --> 01:13:37,920
angels who come to

1971
01:13:41,189 --> 01:13:40,800
deliver good messages but even when when

1972
01:13:43,830 --> 01:13:41,199
the

1973
01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:43,840
uh archangel gabriel appears to marry in

1974
01:13:46,470 --> 01:13:44,880
the new testament

1975
01:13:47,990 --> 01:13:46,480
this does carry over in the new

1976
01:13:51,110 --> 01:13:48,000
testament

1977
01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:51,120
mary is is put off by the appearance of

1978
01:13:55,110 --> 01:13:52,320
this angel she's

1979
01:13:57,750 --> 01:13:55,120
kind of frightened at first because in

1980
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:57,760
those times the appearance of an angel

1981
01:14:03,750 --> 01:14:00,960
usually meant you know god was upset

1982
01:14:05,430 --> 01:14:03,760
with you and so the angel says fear not

1983
01:14:07,669 --> 01:14:05,440
you know the angel has come to to

1984
01:14:10,709 --> 01:14:07,679
deliver an important message

1985
01:14:14,630 --> 01:14:10,719
and not to warn or or meet out some sort

1986
01:14:18,070 --> 01:14:14,640
of divine punishment

1987
01:14:20,630 --> 01:14:18,080
now it's getting a little more darker

1988
01:14:23,030 --> 01:14:20,640
uh you know i know you and john zappos

1989
01:14:27,030 --> 01:14:23,040
have collaborated on a couple of books

1990
01:14:29,750 --> 01:14:27,040
and uh how do i ask you

1991
01:14:31,990 --> 01:14:29,760
what is the status of modern-day

1992
01:14:33,030 --> 01:14:32,000
demonology as compared to maybe earlier

1993
01:14:35,270 --> 01:14:33,040
times

1994
01:14:38,550 --> 01:14:35,280
when demons were blamed for almost every

1995
01:14:45,270 --> 01:14:42,390
uh well um i i think that

1996
01:14:49,910 --> 01:14:45,280
demonology again today has gotten to be

1997
01:14:57,030 --> 01:14:53,910
someone who deals with these satanic

1998
01:14:59,510 --> 01:14:57,040
beings and you know thanks to

1999
01:15:02,070 --> 01:14:59,520
christianity that we have this skew on

2000
01:15:03,910 --> 01:15:02,080
on demons to begin with that they're all

2001
01:15:07,750 --> 01:15:03,920
minions of satan

2002
01:15:11,189 --> 01:15:07,760
uh deals with these satanic entities who

2003
01:15:12,830 --> 01:15:11,199
whose only purpose is to latch onto

2004
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:12,840
people and begin this

2005
01:15:16,870 --> 01:15:15,280
deterioration from infestation to

2006
01:15:19,990 --> 01:15:16,880
possession

2007
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:20,000
when they can but at least to destroy

2008
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:23,600
someone's life and what demonology

2009
01:15:28,550 --> 01:15:26,320
doesn't adequately explain is

2010
01:15:31,750 --> 01:15:28,560
in in all cases is why this happens in

2011
01:15:37,830 --> 01:15:34,790
there seem to be cases where people can

2012
01:15:39,110 --> 01:15:37,840
invite you know trouble from dark

2013
01:15:41,669 --> 01:15:39,120
entities but

2014
01:15:43,030 --> 01:15:41,679
then we have examples where people uh

2015
01:15:44,390 --> 01:15:43,040
didn't seem to do that at least

2016
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,400
consciously and

2017
01:15:47,590 --> 01:15:46,480
so there's kind of a convoluted argument

2018
01:15:49,910 --> 01:15:47,600
that they're

2019
01:15:51,350 --> 01:15:49,920
you know sacrificial lamb examples of

2020
01:15:55,430 --> 01:15:51,360
the potential of

2021
01:15:59,510 --> 01:15:55,440
of you know the demonic to destroy

2022
01:16:01,750 --> 01:15:59,520
not quite satisfying but demonologists

2023
01:16:04,790 --> 01:16:01,760
will take on negative cases where there

2024
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:07,750
very hostile entities who are attached

2025
01:16:13,590 --> 01:16:09,840
to people and environments

2026
01:16:17,669 --> 01:16:13,600
and you know attempt to to resolve

2027
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:17,679
the situation the demonologists that i

2028
01:16:20,870 --> 01:16:18,719
know

2029
01:16:21,910 --> 01:16:20,880
work with a variety of spiritual

2030
01:16:23,910 --> 01:16:21,920
remedies and

2031
01:16:26,070 --> 01:16:23,920
and religious practices and they all

2032
01:16:27,030 --> 01:16:26,080
have their own particular favorites in

2033
01:16:31,830 --> 01:16:27,040
terms of

2034
01:16:38,630 --> 01:16:34,870
um now if you if you

2035
01:16:41,990 --> 01:16:38,640
had a person who came to you

2036
01:16:45,340 --> 01:16:42,000
suspecting they had a haunted object

2037
01:16:47,510 --> 01:16:45,350
what would you tell them to first do

2038
01:16:50,390 --> 01:16:47,520
[Music]

2039
01:16:51,669 --> 01:16:50,400
first um i would have to ascertain uh

2040
01:16:53,990 --> 01:16:51,679
you know why

2041
01:16:54,950 --> 01:16:54,000
uh they think this object is haunted

2042
01:16:57,910 --> 01:16:54,960
right uh

2043
01:16:58,630 --> 01:16:57,920
what happened uh after they acquired the

2044
01:17:03,189 --> 01:16:58,640
object

2045
01:17:08,149 --> 01:17:06,470
that changed and with uh

2046
01:17:09,750 --> 01:17:08,159
with these cases there's a certain

2047
01:17:12,870 --> 01:17:09,760
pattern

2048
01:17:14,790 --> 01:17:12,880
of activity and john and i talk about

2049
01:17:15,669 --> 01:17:14,800
this and haunted by the things you love

2050
01:17:18,870 --> 01:17:15,679
which is

2051
01:17:21,669 --> 01:17:18,880
a collection of some of his

2052
01:17:23,830 --> 01:17:21,679
unusual cases drawn from from his

2053
01:17:26,950 --> 01:17:23,840
haunted museum

2054
01:17:30,070 --> 01:17:26,960
a person will acquire an object that has

2055
01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:30,080
a spirit attachment sometimes

2056
01:17:34,310 --> 01:17:31,840
a curse attached to it but let's just

2057
01:17:38,709 --> 01:17:34,320
say a spirit attachment

2058
01:17:40,870 --> 01:17:38,719
and quite often the the person will feel

2059
01:17:42,470 --> 01:17:40,880
that something is very odd or off about

2060
01:17:45,510 --> 01:17:42,480
this object

2061
01:17:47,910 --> 01:17:45,520
they'll get an intuitive uh

2062
01:17:49,510 --> 01:17:47,920
indication that there's a problem but

2063
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:49,520
they won't know what it is

2064
01:17:53,110 --> 01:17:51,199
and they override it because they've

2065
01:17:55,270 --> 01:17:53,120
simply got to have whatever this thing

2066
01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:55,280
is for a variety of reasons

2067
01:17:58,790 --> 01:17:57,199
so they bring it into to their

2068
01:18:02,709 --> 01:17:58,800
environment it could be clothing

2069
01:18:05,430 --> 01:18:02,719
jewelry collectibles furniture

2070
01:18:07,189 --> 01:18:05,440
just about anything and then there will

2071
01:18:09,590 --> 01:18:07,199
be

2072
01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:09,600
either an explosion of paranormal

2073
01:18:13,750 --> 01:18:10,800
activity

2074
01:18:14,870 --> 01:18:13,760
that had not been present before or it

2075
01:18:18,229 --> 01:18:14,880
will gradually

2076
01:18:21,110 --> 01:18:18,239
creep and escalate shadows

2077
01:18:22,870 --> 01:18:21,120
apparitions cold breezes and spots

2078
01:18:26,550 --> 01:18:22,880
phantom voices

2079
01:18:29,830 --> 01:18:26,560
phantom music nightmares

2080
01:18:31,229 --> 01:18:29,840
feelings of being watched objects moving

2081
01:18:33,360 --> 01:18:31,239
around

2082
01:18:34,790 --> 01:18:33,370
relationships

2083
01:18:38,070 --> 01:18:34,800
[Music]

2084
01:18:40,950 --> 01:18:38,080
disintegrating through arguing and

2085
01:18:43,030 --> 01:18:40,960
you know things like that and this

2086
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:43,040
activity will escalate and sometimes

2087
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:46,080
physical health is affected as well uh

2088
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:47,760
until they finally put two and two

2089
01:18:52,550 --> 01:18:49,520
together and

2090
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:52,560
say hey none of this happened before

2091
01:18:58,630 --> 01:18:56,480
um i brought x into the house

2092
01:18:59,910 --> 01:18:58,640
uh and so people like john or myself

2093
01:19:02,070 --> 01:18:59,920
will get called

2094
01:19:02,950 --> 01:19:02,080
sometimes people won't even associate it

2095
01:19:05,990 --> 01:19:02,960
with with an

2096
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:06,000
object they'll just have this sudden

2097
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:08,800
eruption of unpleasant activity

2098
01:19:15,830 --> 01:19:11,920
and they go looking for help

2099
01:19:19,750 --> 01:19:15,840
so if we know what the object is

2100
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:19,760
or we suspect what it is then we can

2101
01:19:24,390 --> 01:19:22,000
get to the bottom of it faster we don't

2102
01:19:26,310 --> 01:19:24,400
go through a process of elimination

2103
01:19:28,950 --> 01:19:26,320
and removing the object from the

2104
01:19:31,669 --> 01:19:28,960
premises will almost always bring relief

2105
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:31,679
in the cases of cursed objects it

2106
01:19:35,669 --> 01:19:33,360
doesn't sometimes because

2107
01:19:37,590 --> 01:19:35,679
a cursed object will often come with

2108
01:19:39,350 --> 01:19:37,600
like a trojan horse spirit

2109
01:19:41,189 --> 01:19:39,360
that is then unleashed into the

2110
01:19:44,709 --> 01:19:41,199
environment and latches on to the

2111
01:19:47,830 --> 01:19:44,719
environment and the people in it

2112
01:19:53,669 --> 01:19:47,840
and then other steps are taken to

2113
01:19:57,750 --> 01:19:55,910
you have to go to extreme measures of

2114
01:20:00,550 --> 01:19:57,760
binding

2115
01:20:02,870 --> 01:20:00,560
bind a spirit to an object so that it

2116
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:02,880
doesn't act out

2117
01:20:06,390 --> 01:20:05,120
sometimes objects have to be buried or

2118
01:20:10,229 --> 01:20:06,400
disposed of in deep

2119
01:20:14,229 --> 01:20:13,110
um now i know you worked with john on

2120
01:20:18,070 --> 01:20:14,239
this book

2121
01:20:24,229 --> 01:20:18,080
what can you recall maybe one of the

2122
01:20:31,270 --> 01:20:27,350
well uh they're all kind of unique in

2123
01:20:35,030 --> 01:20:31,280
in various ways but um

2124
01:20:38,070 --> 01:20:35,040
one that struck me as highly unusual uh

2125
01:20:39,910 --> 01:20:38,080
involved a mirror um that

2126
01:20:42,709 --> 01:20:39,920
and oftentimes people will find these

2127
01:20:46,550 --> 01:20:42,719
objects in estate shops yard sales and

2128
01:20:50,149 --> 01:20:46,560
whatnot but a couple uh

2129
01:20:53,590 --> 01:20:50,159
found this mirror um kind of

2130
01:20:55,430 --> 01:20:53,600
not not a real antique but old

2131
01:20:57,910 --> 01:20:55,440
and they bought it at the yard sale and

2132
01:21:01,430 --> 01:20:57,920
put it in their dining room

2133
01:21:03,350 --> 01:21:01,440
and activity started in the house

2134
01:21:05,510 --> 01:21:03,360
now the wife was a total skeptic and

2135
01:21:08,390 --> 01:21:05,520
non-believer in anything paranormal

2136
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:08,400
and the husband was kind of neutral or

2137
01:21:12,870 --> 01:21:10,320
ambivalent

2138
01:21:13,990 --> 01:21:12,880
and he was the primary experiencer which

2139
01:21:16,310 --> 01:21:14,000
is not uncommon

2140
01:21:17,750 --> 01:21:16,320
for one person to be a focal point in a

2141
01:21:21,270 --> 01:21:17,760
household

2142
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:21,280
experience

2143
01:21:26,070 --> 01:21:23,199
nothing to very little it's easy for

2144
01:21:28,070 --> 01:21:26,080
them to dismiss the whole thing as

2145
01:21:29,669 --> 01:21:28,080
all in the other person's head and

2146
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:29,679
that's what happened in this case

2147
01:21:37,350 --> 01:21:33,920
what made it unusual now in mere cases

2148
01:21:40,229 --> 01:21:37,360
where mirrors are

2149
01:21:40,709 --> 01:21:40,239
in problem hauntings they have been

2150
01:21:43,510 --> 01:21:40,719
known

2151
01:21:44,950 --> 01:21:43,520
for a long time as potential doorways to

2152
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:44,960
the spirit world

2153
01:21:51,270 --> 01:21:48,719
and that when they are used in

2154
01:21:52,950 --> 01:21:51,280
the wrong place in the wrong way spirits

2155
01:21:56,470 --> 01:21:52,960
can come through them

2156
01:21:58,229 --> 01:21:56,480
and access a place

2157
01:22:00,390 --> 01:21:58,239
well the husband started seeing all

2158
01:22:04,870 --> 01:22:00,400
these shadow figures in the house

2159
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:04,880
and um if he tried to focus on them

2160
01:22:10,390 --> 01:22:08,400
they would immediately start

2161
01:22:12,149 --> 01:22:10,400
heading for the dining room and if he

2162
01:22:13,110 --> 01:22:12,159
made it to the dining room fast enough

2163
01:22:16,310 --> 01:22:13,120
he would see them go

2164
01:22:16,709 --> 01:22:16,320
into the mirror he never ever saw them

2165
01:22:20,310 --> 01:22:16,719
come

2166
01:22:23,750 --> 01:22:20,320
out he only saw them go in

2167
01:22:24,070 --> 01:22:23,760
and i have i've never heard of a case

2168
01:22:25,590 --> 01:22:24,080
like

2169
01:22:27,110 --> 01:22:25,600
that where you only see the figures

2170
01:22:28,870 --> 01:22:27,120
going into the mirror instead of coming

2171
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:28,880
out usually people will

2172
01:22:35,669 --> 01:22:33,040
will see things come out of a mirror uh

2173
01:22:36,709 --> 01:22:35,679
so that made it a little unusual and the

2174
01:22:38,790 --> 01:22:36,719
wife never

2175
01:22:40,950 --> 01:22:38,800
never saw these things they had

2176
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:40,960
poltergeist stuff that

2177
01:22:45,990 --> 01:22:43,440
objects got rearranged and even though

2178
01:22:47,510 --> 01:22:46,000
she had no explanation for that

2179
01:22:49,750 --> 01:22:47,520
she still wouldn't believe that the

2180
01:22:51,189 --> 01:22:49,760
mirror was haunted and he kept telling

2181
01:22:51,669 --> 01:22:51,199
it there's something wrong with that

2182
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:51,679
mirror

2183
01:22:57,830 --> 01:22:54,800
well he started having nightmares

2184
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:57,840
and in the nightmares these blobs

2185
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,360
which is what he called the shadow

2186
01:23:03,030 --> 01:23:00,960
things

2187
01:23:05,270 --> 01:23:03,040
were telling him not to trust certain

2188
01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:05,280
people in his life relatives and friends

2189
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:06,320
that they were

2190
01:23:09,669 --> 01:23:08,400
actively working against him and he

2191
01:23:13,430 --> 01:23:09,679
would wake up with this

2192
01:23:16,950 --> 01:23:13,440
horrible feeling of foreboding

2193
01:23:19,510 --> 01:23:16,960
so the marriage was

2194
01:23:19,990 --> 01:23:19,520
probably not in that good shape to begin

2195
01:23:23,270 --> 01:23:20,000
with

2196
01:23:26,629 --> 01:23:23,280
but the bottom line of it was

2197
01:23:30,070 --> 01:23:26,639
that after john was called in and

2198
01:23:32,229 --> 01:23:30,080
the mirror was was taken out

2199
01:23:35,669 --> 01:23:32,239
their relationship had deteriorated to

2200
01:23:37,750 --> 01:23:35,679
the point where they the couple split up

2201
01:23:41,030 --> 01:23:37,760
however taking the object out of the

2202
01:23:46,310 --> 01:23:44,950
affect a link that these entities had to

2203
01:23:48,950 --> 01:23:46,320
the husband

2204
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:48,960
and he continued to have nightmares they

2205
01:23:53,110 --> 01:23:50,320
split up he moved

2206
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:53,120
into an apartment he continued to have

2207
01:23:58,950 --> 01:23:56,080
the nightmares with these blobs

2208
01:24:01,430 --> 01:23:58,960
and also this foreboding that something

2209
01:24:04,310 --> 01:24:01,440
dreadful was going to happen to him

2210
01:24:06,470 --> 01:24:04,320
well a lot of times people they won't

2211
01:24:10,629 --> 01:24:06,480
allow you to help them all the way

2212
01:24:13,910 --> 01:24:10,639
don't come and ask for help and then

2213
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:13,920
you can get them to a partial resolution

2214
01:24:17,669 --> 01:24:16,080
or what seems to be closure and then

2215
01:24:20,149 --> 01:24:17,679
something else develops

2216
01:24:22,709 --> 01:24:20,159
and then they um they either don't want

2217
01:24:24,629 --> 01:24:22,719
any more help or they fall off the radar

2218
01:24:25,830 --> 01:24:24,639
wow i've been through that i know that

2219
01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:25,840
for a [\h__\h]

2220
01:24:30,310 --> 01:24:28,320
oh yeah that just happens all the time

2221
01:24:32,310 --> 01:24:30,320
for a lot of reasons well

2222
01:24:33,350 --> 01:24:32,320
so john heard from this man

2223
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:33,360
intermittently

2224
01:24:36,950 --> 01:24:35,199
but this guy didn't want any more help

2225
01:24:38,390 --> 01:24:36,960
he told john that he was still having

2226
01:24:42,070 --> 01:24:38,400
the nightmares

2227
01:24:45,350 --> 01:24:42,080
and then john heard um that

2228
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:45,360
um within a a passage of time

2229
01:24:49,750 --> 01:24:48,320
it was like a couple of years after uh

2230
01:24:52,790 --> 01:24:49,760
the whole thing started

2231
01:24:55,189 --> 01:24:52,800
that he died and uh

2232
01:24:57,669 --> 01:24:55,199
he was a motorcyclist and he died in a

2233
01:25:01,510 --> 01:24:57,679
highway accident

2234
01:25:04,950 --> 01:25:01,520
and so it just leaves this question open

2235
01:25:05,590 --> 01:25:04,960
of you know were these beings did these

2236
01:25:10,149 --> 01:25:05,600
beings

2237
01:25:12,470 --> 01:25:10,159
get a hook into him that they

2238
01:25:14,070 --> 01:25:12,480
they participated in his demise were

2239
01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:14,080
they trying to give him

2240
01:25:19,669 --> 01:25:17,520
uh even though they were dark uh beings

2241
01:25:22,149 --> 01:25:19,679
with a negative energy were they trying

2242
01:25:24,070 --> 01:25:22,159
to give him warnings through his dreams

2243
01:25:25,189 --> 01:25:24,080
they kept telling him not to trust his

2244
01:25:27,910 --> 01:25:25,199
family members

2245
01:25:30,310 --> 01:25:27,920
and nothing ever happened with members

2246
01:25:31,189 --> 01:25:30,320
of his family he had good relations with

2247
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:31,199
his

2248
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:34,239
uh family nothing

2249
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:35,840
bad ever happened with him it's almost

2250
01:25:40,149 --> 01:25:37,920
like a ouija board communication

2251
01:25:43,990 --> 01:25:40,159
you know yeah where people are

2252
01:25:47,990 --> 01:25:46,070
yeah you wonder if it was some type of

2253
01:25:51,189 --> 01:25:48,000
attachment that he received or

2254
01:25:53,030 --> 01:25:51,199
um you know residue to

2255
01:25:54,870 --> 01:25:53,040
what was going on with the mirror you

2256
01:25:56,950 --> 01:25:54,880
know that when you mention that

2257
01:25:58,709 --> 01:25:56,960
they never saw anything come out of the

2258
01:26:00,709 --> 01:25:58,719
mirror that is odd because that's

2259
01:26:04,790 --> 01:26:00,719
normally where it starts at

2260
01:26:08,629 --> 01:26:04,800
uh you know you i i don't know of a case

2261
01:26:10,870 --> 01:26:08,639
where you know an entity has been seen

2262
01:26:11,669 --> 01:26:10,880
but when recognized heads for the mirror

2263
01:26:14,550 --> 01:26:11,679
are you know

2264
01:26:16,470 --> 01:26:14,560
and it's usually a mirror because i mean

2265
01:26:17,430 --> 01:26:16,480
i had several cases that have involved

2266
01:26:20,310 --> 01:26:17,440
mirrors

2267
01:26:21,350 --> 01:26:20,320
and uh that's that's odd that really is

2268
01:26:24,390 --> 01:26:21,360
odd

2269
01:26:28,070 --> 01:26:24,400
but um it was strange in that regard

2270
01:26:29,590 --> 01:26:28,080
and he would try watching the mirror

2271
01:26:32,149 --> 01:26:29,600
to see if anything would come out and of

2272
01:26:33,990 --> 01:26:32,159
course you know it's

2273
01:26:35,990 --> 01:26:34,000
you you watch for something and then it

2274
01:26:40,229 --> 01:26:36,000
won't happen so he never saw

2275
01:26:42,950 --> 01:26:40,239
anything coming out and

2276
01:26:44,870 --> 01:26:42,960
as i'm sure you found lawn and in cases

2277
01:26:45,990 --> 01:26:44,880
with badly placed mirrors they're often

2278
01:26:49,189 --> 01:26:46,000
in bedrooms

2279
01:26:52,550 --> 01:26:49,199
yeah and uh you know they they face the

2280
01:26:54,550 --> 01:26:52,560
the sleeper in some bad

2281
01:26:57,750 --> 01:26:54,560
energy way or you've got mirrors that

2282
01:27:01,110 --> 01:26:57,760
look into each other

2283
01:27:02,310 --> 01:27:01,120
so as is often the case with these

2284
01:27:04,470 --> 01:27:02,320
objects

2285
01:27:07,590 --> 01:27:04,480
it's difficult to ascertain how or why

2286
01:27:09,990 --> 01:27:07,600
it got to be affected in the first place

2287
01:27:10,629 --> 01:27:10,000
so what was the history behind this

2288
01:27:13,830 --> 01:27:10,639
mirror

2289
01:27:16,550 --> 01:27:13,840
um there's often no way to trace it did

2290
01:27:17,830 --> 01:27:16,560
did somebody it was an ordinary looking

2291
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:17,840
mirror it looked like it should be

2292
01:27:20,310 --> 01:27:18,400
hanging on

2293
01:27:23,910 --> 01:27:20,320
it was ornate and a nice cherry wood

2294
01:27:29,030 --> 01:27:27,110
it wasn't like a ritualized mirror you

2295
01:27:32,310 --> 01:27:29,040
know that someone had

2296
01:27:33,430 --> 01:27:32,320
painted or decorated for obvious occult

2297
01:27:35,830 --> 01:27:33,440
ritual

2298
01:27:37,030 --> 01:27:35,840
so what happens to an object like that

2299
01:27:40,149 --> 01:27:37,040
and how does it become

2300
01:27:43,590 --> 01:27:40,159
such a gateway for

2301
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:43,600
these dark threatening figures

2302
01:27:47,350 --> 01:27:46,080
and in most cases we never know the

2303
01:27:49,510 --> 01:27:47,360
complete history

2304
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:49,520
in cases of curses sometimes we can

2305
01:27:54,629 --> 01:27:50,560
trace it back to

2306
01:27:56,629 --> 01:27:54,639
to the origin but um

2307
01:27:58,149 --> 01:27:56,639
it was just a sad story all the way

2308
01:28:00,709 --> 01:27:58,159
around

2309
01:28:01,270 --> 01:28:00,719
well you know you mentioned uh about

2310
01:28:04,550 --> 01:28:01,280
people

2311
01:28:07,750 --> 01:28:04,560
placing mirrors in bedrooms where it's

2312
01:28:09,510 --> 01:28:07,760
faced toward the bed or they have a

2313
01:28:12,149 --> 01:28:09,520
mirror hanging on a door as

2314
01:28:13,030 --> 01:28:12,159
face toward and i do tell people myself

2315
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:13,040
do not

2316
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:15,760
even a mirror on a dresser move it to

2317
01:28:19,830 --> 01:28:18,320
away from looking at you on the bed

2318
01:28:21,430 --> 01:28:19,840
you know it's almost like they pick up

2319
01:28:23,830 --> 01:28:21,440
somebody's life

2320
01:28:25,430 --> 01:28:23,840
and pick up their frailties or whatever

2321
01:28:28,870 --> 01:28:25,440
i it just seems to me that

2322
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:28,880
it just comes to life um

2323
01:28:31,910 --> 01:28:31,040
you know and then and what for whatever

2324
01:28:35,830 --> 01:28:31,920
reason if

2325
01:28:36,870 --> 01:28:35,840
the mirror has does become like a portal

2326
01:28:40,790 --> 01:28:36,880
that it can use

2327
01:28:43,430 --> 01:28:40,800
whatever it detects about a person

2328
01:28:45,189 --> 01:28:43,440
uh against them you know i'm saying i it

2329
01:28:47,510 --> 01:28:45,199
just seems that way to me and

2330
01:28:49,270 --> 01:28:47,520
but i do i do tell people when they you

2331
01:28:51,270 --> 01:28:49,280
know

2332
01:28:52,550 --> 01:28:51,280
if they've got a mirror and if you can't

2333
01:28:54,229 --> 01:28:52,560
put it anywhere

2334
01:28:57,270 --> 01:28:54,239
that it's not facing the bed don't use

2335
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:57,280
it put it someplace else

2336
01:29:03,910 --> 01:29:00,960
i have no mirrors in my bedroom

2337
01:29:05,750 --> 01:29:03,920
and you know some people live in in

2338
01:29:09,350 --> 01:29:05,760
places where

2339
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:09,360
the the entire closet the sliding glass

2340
01:29:13,669 --> 01:29:11,760
doors on closets or mirrors

2341
01:29:14,790 --> 01:29:13,679
i lived in a place like that and i never

2342
01:29:18,310 --> 01:29:14,800
liked it

2343
01:29:20,950 --> 01:29:18,320
i just felt that it was not um

2344
01:29:24,950 --> 01:29:20,960
beneficial energy at night nothing bad

2345
01:29:28,390 --> 01:29:24,960
ever happened to me in that place but

2346
01:29:32,550 --> 01:29:30,950
with it like that mirrors shouldn't be

2347
01:29:35,189 --> 01:29:32,560
at the foot of the bed they shouldn't be

2348
01:29:37,270 --> 01:29:35,199
at the head of the bed

2349
01:29:39,430 --> 01:29:37,280
now i do a lot of work with black

2350
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:39,440
mirrors and i teach and i was going to

2351
01:29:45,030 --> 01:29:41,040
ask you about that

2352
01:29:48,870 --> 01:29:45,040
well i teach uh black mirror scrying and

2353
01:29:51,030 --> 01:29:48,880
that is an entirely different

2354
01:29:52,390 --> 01:29:51,040
aspect of mirror work if one thing

2355
01:29:53,830 --> 01:29:52,400
you're dealing with black mirrors

2356
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:53,840
instead of reflective mirrors

2357
01:29:57,910 --> 01:29:55,520
there's something about the silvered

2358
01:29:59,350 --> 01:29:57,920
mirrors that i think is especially

2359
01:30:02,470 --> 01:29:59,360
conducive to

2360
01:30:04,390 --> 01:30:02,480
to being a portal a portal in whereas

2361
01:30:07,910 --> 01:30:04,400
with the black mirror you're going

2362
01:30:08,790 --> 01:30:07,920
um you're using the mirror as a surface

2363
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:08,800
or to even go

2364
01:30:14,629 --> 01:30:10,639
into the mirror in order to get

2365
01:30:18,229 --> 01:30:14,639
information it's it's a more controlled

2366
01:30:21,750 --> 01:30:18,239
kind of activity that you

2367
01:30:23,030 --> 01:30:21,760
you engage with it as a tool to open up

2368
01:30:25,830 --> 01:30:23,040
the psychic sense

2369
01:30:26,790 --> 01:30:25,840
for uh communication with the dead and

2370
01:30:29,990 --> 01:30:26,800
entities and

2371
01:30:30,790 --> 01:30:30,000
astral travel akashic records past life

2372
01:30:34,149 --> 01:30:30,800
viewing

2373
01:30:36,550 --> 01:30:34,159
it's powerful because things can arise

2374
01:30:40,629 --> 01:30:36,560
in the mirror

2375
01:30:43,110 --> 01:30:40,639
that in very stark ways that

2376
01:30:46,790 --> 01:30:43,120
can unsettle some people so it's it's a

2377
01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:50,390
is quite strong but um

2378
01:30:54,470 --> 01:30:53,280
um it's it's different from these

2379
01:30:58,149 --> 01:30:54,480
silvered mirrors

2380
01:30:58,790 --> 01:30:58,159
that um that i i don't know whether it's

2381
01:31:01,910 --> 01:30:58,800
um

2382
01:31:02,709 --> 01:31:01,920
something in the silvering that it

2383
01:31:05,510 --> 01:31:02,719
reflects

2384
01:31:06,149 --> 01:31:05,520
uh everything in such detail and then

2385
01:31:13,350 --> 01:31:06,159
when

2386
01:31:16,950 --> 01:31:13,360
um magnifies these

2387
01:31:19,550 --> 01:31:16,960
these occult energies

2388
01:31:20,709 --> 01:31:19,560
but silver mirrors go back to about the

2389
01:31:24,070 --> 01:31:20,719
1830s

2390
01:31:25,750 --> 01:31:24,080
and from that point on in at least in

2391
01:31:29,110 --> 01:31:25,760
western culture that's where we have a

2392
01:31:31,910 --> 01:31:29,120
lot of folklore arising

2393
01:31:34,790 --> 01:31:31,920
about mirrors and that they have to be

2394
01:31:37,110 --> 01:31:34,800
covered when someone dies in a household

2395
01:31:37,830 --> 01:31:37,120
uh that they're portals to the spirit

2396
01:31:40,149 --> 01:31:37,840
world

2397
01:31:42,470 --> 01:31:40,159
so something happened with the advent of

2398
01:31:44,950 --> 01:31:42,480
these silvered surfaces

2399
01:31:47,990 --> 01:31:44,960
that interacts with the spirit realms in

2400
01:31:51,590 --> 01:31:49,910
you know i um you know i was going to

2401
01:31:52,390 --> 01:31:51,600
ask you about the the black mirror

2402
01:31:53,990 --> 01:31:52,400
scrying

2403
01:31:56,870 --> 01:31:54,000
because i know people that have used

2404
01:31:58,870 --> 01:31:56,880
crystals uh before

2405
01:32:00,470 --> 01:31:58,880
have gone to the black mirror scrying

2406
01:32:04,870 --> 01:32:00,480
now i really don't know why

2407
01:32:06,790 --> 01:32:04,880
but they say it's easier to use um

2408
01:32:08,709 --> 01:32:06,800
i don't know you know they've also those

2409
01:32:09,590 --> 01:32:08,719
are also people that you use tarot as

2410
01:32:12,229 --> 01:32:09,600
well

2411
01:32:12,790 --> 01:32:12,239
um so what would you what do you use it

2412
01:32:16,629 --> 01:32:12,800
for

2413
01:32:18,470 --> 01:32:16,639
in particular well it can be used in

2414
01:32:21,270 --> 01:32:18,480
paranormal investigation

2415
01:32:23,189 --> 01:32:21,280
but well those would be in settings

2416
01:32:24,790 --> 01:32:23,199
where you would have more of a sam you

2417
01:32:26,790 --> 01:32:24,800
know you would want to use it as part of

2418
01:32:29,830 --> 01:32:26,800
a seance

2419
01:32:30,629 --> 01:32:29,840
method of communicating i have worked

2420
01:32:33,270 --> 01:32:30,639
with some

2421
01:32:34,870 --> 01:32:33,280
paranormal groups who have one or two

2422
01:32:37,510 --> 01:32:34,880
mirrors for the group

2423
01:32:39,189 --> 01:32:37,520
and if they they want to do some sort of

2424
01:32:42,470 --> 01:32:39,199
a seance setting

2425
01:32:45,910 --> 01:32:42,480
the mirror will evoke information

2426
01:32:47,830 --> 01:32:45,920
and it's

2427
01:32:50,149 --> 01:32:47,840
it's a different kind of tool that some

2428
01:32:54,229 --> 01:32:50,159
people find to be

2429
01:32:57,590 --> 01:32:54,239
very effective and it's often a surprise

2430
01:33:00,790 --> 01:32:57,600
since this is really old technology that

2431
01:33:01,189 --> 01:33:00,800
is still good today and a lot of people

2432
01:33:05,990 --> 01:33:01,199
just

2433
01:33:09,590 --> 01:33:06,000
using the black mirror

2434
01:33:13,030 --> 01:33:09,600
um to experi years ago

2435
01:33:16,149 --> 01:33:13,040
um to experiment with visioning

2436
01:33:19,750 --> 01:33:16,159
uh to divine the future or the

2437
01:33:21,270 --> 01:33:19,760
uh look into the past uh to contact the

2438
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:21,280
spirit world

2439
01:33:27,750 --> 01:33:25,440
and then when raymond moody came out in

2440
01:33:31,990 --> 01:33:27,760
the 1980s with his book

2441
01:33:33,430 --> 01:33:32,000
reunions which

2442
01:33:35,270 --> 01:33:33,440
i think that might have been the early

2443
01:33:36,870 --> 01:33:35,280
90s yeah kind of thing with the early

2444
01:33:38,709 --> 01:33:36,880
90s reunions about

2445
01:33:41,270 --> 01:33:38,719
his use of the black mirror that he

2446
01:33:44,310 --> 01:33:41,280
called the psychomantium process

2447
01:33:48,629 --> 01:33:44,320
for uh closure you know grief

2448
01:33:55,750 --> 01:33:52,310
that piqued my interest and uh

2449
01:33:58,470 --> 01:33:55,760
so i began experimenting with it

2450
01:33:59,590 --> 01:33:58,480
as a way of communicating particularly

2451
01:34:02,629 --> 01:33:59,600
with the dead

2452
01:34:04,629 --> 01:34:02,639
and i took some workshops from

2453
01:34:06,390 --> 01:34:04,639
dr moody i went down to his house in

2454
01:34:08,149 --> 01:34:06,400
alabama i went through his

2455
01:34:10,149 --> 01:34:08,159
personal psychomantium which was a

2456
01:34:12,310 --> 01:34:10,159
day-long process

2457
01:34:13,990 --> 01:34:12,320
and then i took some workshops from him

2458
01:34:18,550 --> 01:34:14,000
and some training

2459
01:34:21,830 --> 01:34:18,560
from him and facilitating black mirror

2460
01:34:23,189 --> 01:34:21,840
scrying for for others but i always saw

2461
01:34:26,709 --> 01:34:23,199
the uses as

2462
01:34:30,390 --> 01:34:28,870
contacting the dead foreclosure that's

2463
01:34:33,990 --> 01:34:30,400
very important

2464
01:34:36,149 --> 01:34:34,000
and when when people ask me for

2465
01:34:37,590 --> 01:34:36,159
a personal session which i do lead

2466
01:34:39,990 --> 01:34:37,600
personal sessions and

2467
01:34:40,709 --> 01:34:40,000
black mirrors it's usually for that it's

2468
01:34:43,910 --> 01:34:40,719
to

2469
01:34:47,590 --> 01:34:43,920
contact a dead loved one

2470
01:34:51,910 --> 01:34:47,600
but when when i teach in workshops uh

2471
01:34:54,470 --> 01:34:51,920
it's so useful for astral traveling

2472
01:34:56,790 --> 01:34:54,480
uh going into the akashic records

2473
01:35:01,910 --> 01:34:56,800
contacting all kinds of entities

2474
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:01,920
and past life exploration as well

2475
01:35:06,070 --> 01:35:05,199
it's also uh a good tool just for

2476
01:35:08,709 --> 01:35:06,080
developing

2477
01:35:09,270 --> 01:35:08,719
the psychic faculty you know like like

2478
01:35:11,510 --> 01:35:09,280
any

2479
01:35:13,109 --> 01:35:11,520
tool you know the tarot is dowsing rods

2480
01:35:14,870 --> 01:35:13,119
are uh

2481
01:35:16,790 --> 01:35:14,880
you know and any kind of work like that

2482
01:35:20,870 --> 01:35:16,800
will sharpen up the

2483
01:35:25,510 --> 01:35:23,510
sean do you have anything did you tell

2484
01:35:27,189 --> 01:35:25,520
rosemary about the time we were in

2485
01:35:28,950 --> 01:35:27,199
phenomicon and

2486
01:35:30,629 --> 01:35:28,960
the guy with the ouija board sat down

2487
01:35:32,629 --> 01:35:30,639
next to you and

2488
01:35:34,470 --> 01:35:32,639
rosemary i've never seen lawn so

2489
01:35:36,470 --> 01:35:34,480
uncomfortable

2490
01:35:37,830 --> 01:35:36,480
in my life like he was crawling out of

2491
01:35:39,030 --> 01:35:37,840
his skin like he

2492
01:35:40,629 --> 01:35:39,040
he kept looking he's like you gotta get

2493
01:35:41,590 --> 01:35:40,639
these damn things away from me he goes

2494
01:35:43,430 --> 01:35:41,600
there

2495
01:35:45,830 --> 01:35:43,440
and they were ouija boards of all shapes

2496
01:35:47,750 --> 01:35:45,840
sizes ages

2497
01:35:49,910 --> 01:35:47,760
they were just some of the weirdest

2498
01:35:50,870 --> 01:35:49,920
looking boards when i was in high school

2499
01:35:53,669 --> 01:35:50,880
i had a

2500
01:35:55,430 --> 01:35:53,679
a remarkable experience with a spirit

2501
01:35:58,629 --> 01:35:55,440
board when i was at a party

2502
01:36:01,109 --> 01:35:58,639
and since then i've been

2503
01:36:01,910 --> 01:36:01,119
very wary of ouija board so much so that

2504
01:36:07,990 --> 01:36:01,920
i

2505
01:36:10,550 --> 01:36:08,000
all of them

2506
01:36:11,990 --> 01:36:10,560
this particular one at phenomicon i

2507
01:36:14,790 --> 01:36:12,000
don't know what was

2508
01:36:16,390 --> 01:36:14,800
it hadn't been cleansed but it was awful

2509
01:36:19,910 --> 01:36:16,400
i it was really bothering me

2510
01:36:21,990 --> 01:36:19,920
and um i mean is is that a normal

2511
01:36:26,229 --> 01:36:22,000
reaction to people that are intuitive

2512
01:36:27,270 --> 01:36:26,239
that you found well my take on the ouija

2513
01:36:30,470 --> 01:36:27,280
board is that it's

2514
01:36:34,149 --> 01:36:30,480
like any tool that's neutral and i think

2515
01:36:37,030 --> 01:36:34,159
um people

2516
01:36:38,629 --> 01:36:37,040
in general have been conditioned to view

2517
01:36:42,310 --> 01:36:38,639
them as negative

2518
01:36:45,030 --> 01:36:42,320
by hollywood and by

2519
01:36:46,550 --> 01:36:45,040
um you know the thunderings of various

2520
01:36:49,350 --> 01:36:46,560
uh religious people and

2521
01:36:53,030 --> 01:36:49,360
and certain demonologists who consider

2522
01:36:56,709 --> 01:36:53,040
them to be a welcome mat to satan

2523
01:37:00,149 --> 01:36:56,719
the board in its early history had

2524
01:37:02,070 --> 01:37:00,159
a benign beginning and over the years

2525
01:37:04,149 --> 01:37:02,080
had kind of a checkered history i mean

2526
01:37:08,070 --> 01:37:04,159
people used it for crazy things

2527
01:37:10,390 --> 01:37:08,080
and some people have had

2528
01:37:11,350 --> 01:37:10,400
terrifying experiences with the ouija

2529
01:37:13,830 --> 01:37:11,360
board

2530
01:37:15,030 --> 01:37:13,840
it's it seems to open up psychic

2531
01:37:18,390 --> 01:37:15,040
pathways a lot

2532
01:37:22,950 --> 01:37:18,400
faster than a lot of other tools

2533
01:37:25,990 --> 01:37:22,960
and um if there are opportunistic

2534
01:37:28,470 --> 01:37:26,000
uh negative entities around it's

2535
01:37:29,830 --> 01:37:28,480
it seems to be easier for them to to

2536
01:37:33,590 --> 01:37:29,840
dive bomb

2537
01:37:36,149 --> 01:37:33,600
uh people and and even get attached

2538
01:37:38,709 --> 01:37:36,159
whether or not these individuals would

2539
01:37:41,430 --> 01:37:38,719
have the same issues if they had

2540
01:37:42,709 --> 01:37:41,440
attempted other forms of spirit

2541
01:37:45,189 --> 01:37:42,719
communication

2542
01:37:45,830 --> 01:37:45,199
hard to say but the ouija board opens

2543
01:37:49,189 --> 01:37:45,840
things up

2544
01:37:53,270 --> 01:37:49,199
very very fast it looks mysterious

2545
01:37:55,590 --> 01:37:53,280
it has a mysterious uh aura to it and a

2546
01:37:58,470 --> 01:37:55,600
mystique

2547
01:37:59,430 --> 01:37:58,480
and i consider it out of all the the

2548
01:38:02,870 --> 01:37:59,440
tools to be

2549
01:38:05,990 --> 01:38:02,880
the most problematic because of

2550
01:38:09,109 --> 01:38:06,000
people's skittishness around it and

2551
01:38:13,350 --> 01:38:09,119
unpredictable reactions and

2552
01:38:15,830 --> 01:38:13,360
experiences i've used one

2553
01:38:17,669 --> 01:38:15,840
since i was a kid not regularly i've

2554
01:38:21,030 --> 01:38:17,679
never had

2555
01:38:22,950 --> 01:38:21,040
a terrifying experience i've had

2556
01:38:25,350 --> 01:38:22,960
you know negative entities come through

2557
01:38:27,430 --> 01:38:25,360
and either waste time or

2558
01:38:29,030 --> 01:38:27,440
you know swear but i've had that over

2559
01:38:31,910 --> 01:38:29,040
the ghost box and

2560
01:38:33,590 --> 01:38:31,920
other methods of communication too and

2561
01:38:36,870 --> 01:38:33,600
and then i've interviewed people

2562
01:38:40,149 --> 01:38:36,880
who have had uh you know

2563
01:38:44,790 --> 01:38:40,159
literally evil demonic um

2564
01:38:48,470 --> 01:38:44,800
activity and attachments that um

2565
01:38:50,550 --> 01:38:48,480
came as a result of having used the

2566
01:38:53,750 --> 01:38:50,560
board

2567
01:38:57,270 --> 01:38:53,760
so um

2568
01:39:01,270 --> 01:38:57,280
it's it's definitely got um

2569
01:39:04,149 --> 01:39:01,280
you know this this checkered personality

2570
01:39:07,910 --> 01:39:04,159
and history to it i don't consider it

2571
01:39:10,310 --> 01:39:07,920
inherently bad however

2572
01:39:12,310 --> 01:39:10,320
yeah i um oh it's just like to get this

2573
01:39:13,510 --> 01:39:12,320
movie out now called ouiji

2574
01:39:14,950 --> 01:39:13,520
i don't even know if it has anything to

2575
01:39:15,669 --> 01:39:14,960
do with the you know with the ouija

2576
01:39:19,109 --> 01:39:15,679
board

2577
01:39:20,950 --> 01:39:19,119
other than you know that they used it i

2578
01:39:22,709 --> 01:39:20,960
i it can't be good or they wouldn't have

2579
01:39:25,510 --> 01:39:22,719
made a movie uh

2580
01:39:26,070 --> 01:39:25,520
i can't believe so i mean did you watch

2581
01:39:28,229 --> 01:39:26,080
the movie

2582
01:39:30,229 --> 01:39:28,239
have you seen it i i haven't seen it

2583
01:39:33,189 --> 01:39:30,239
i've only seen the promos

2584
01:39:34,390 --> 01:39:33,199
uh robert merch who's um you know one of

2585
01:39:36,310 --> 01:39:34,400
the leading

2586
01:39:37,590 --> 01:39:36,320
historians on the ouija board he

2587
01:39:41,750 --> 01:39:37,600
consulted on that

2588
01:39:43,510 --> 01:39:41,760
and um the movie had to be made with the

2589
01:39:44,149 --> 01:39:43,520
approval of hasbro because that's a

2590
01:39:47,669 --> 01:39:44,159
trademark

2591
01:39:48,790 --> 01:39:47,679
term luigi but yeah the way hollywood

2592
01:39:52,390 --> 01:39:48,800
treats the board

2593
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:52,400
is that it's a door opener to

2594
01:39:56,310 --> 01:39:55,440
the terrifying and the demonic the movie

2595
01:39:59,350 --> 01:39:56,320
which board

2596
01:39:59,669 --> 01:39:59,360
was particularly bad in that regard that

2597
01:40:03,669 --> 01:39:59,679
came

2598
01:40:05,270 --> 01:40:03,679
was 1986 and

2599
01:40:07,590 --> 01:40:05,280
that was a scenario where the young

2600
01:40:10,790 --> 01:40:07,600
people gather

2601
01:40:14,470 --> 01:40:10,800
and there's this made up folklore

2602
01:40:18,310 --> 01:40:14,480
about how the board enables spirits to

2603
01:40:20,629 --> 01:40:18,320
to come into the room and

2604
01:40:22,470 --> 01:40:20,639
this malevolent entity manifests on the

2605
01:40:23,030 --> 01:40:22,480
board and then starts killing people you

2606
01:40:26,070 --> 01:40:23,040
know

2607
01:40:27,669 --> 01:40:26,080
it is able to latch into the physical

2608
01:40:30,709 --> 01:40:27,679
reality and it starts

2609
01:40:34,229 --> 01:40:30,719
killing people one by one

2610
01:40:37,830 --> 01:40:34,239
and that movie

2611
01:40:43,109 --> 01:40:37,840
probably did more to damage

2612
01:40:47,030 --> 01:40:46,229
which also had a terrifying effect on

2613
01:40:50,870 --> 01:40:47,040
people

2614
01:40:52,149 --> 01:40:50,880
right so i've sometimes wondered if if

2615
01:40:55,270 --> 01:40:52,159
we'll ever

2616
01:40:58,310 --> 01:40:55,280
recover or rather will luigi

2617
01:40:59,430 --> 01:40:58,320
ever recover its original neutrality

2618
01:41:02,310 --> 01:40:59,440
which was as

2619
01:41:04,149 --> 01:41:02,320
a tool for family entertainment yeah

2620
01:41:05,510 --> 01:41:04,159
contact the spirit world you know have

2621
01:41:09,350 --> 01:41:05,520
fun in your living room

2622
01:41:12,149 --> 01:41:09,360
you know contact the spirit world um

2623
01:41:13,669 --> 01:41:12,159
i and i doubt it i i think we're so

2624
01:41:16,229 --> 01:41:13,679
poisoned against it

2625
01:41:16,870 --> 01:41:16,239
that um the board will will never get

2626
01:41:20,229 --> 01:41:16,880
over it

2627
01:41:22,629 --> 01:41:20,239
over that demonic association

2628
01:41:24,629 --> 01:41:22,639
well you know i this this occurrence

2629
01:41:26,950 --> 01:41:24,639
this uh

2630
01:41:29,030 --> 01:41:26,960
experience i went through was back in

2631
01:41:30,790 --> 01:41:29,040
the mid 70s and uh

2632
01:41:32,950 --> 01:41:30,800
you know a lot of people in fact my dad

2633
01:41:34,390 --> 01:41:32,960
used to sell them he used to sell them

2634
01:41:36,550 --> 01:41:34,400
in his store

2635
01:41:37,750 --> 01:41:36,560
so i mean you know i know he wouldn't

2636
01:41:41,109 --> 01:41:37,760
now but

2637
01:41:42,790 --> 01:41:41,119
um you know i i know a lot of people

2638
01:41:43,830 --> 01:41:42,800
that use them i mean i used them when i

2639
01:41:45,430 --> 01:41:43,840
was a kid

2640
01:41:47,590 --> 01:41:45,440
you know you play around with it and if

2641
01:41:50,070 --> 01:41:47,600
it works it works or does it doesn't

2642
01:41:51,910 --> 01:41:50,080
but you know this this one experience

2643
01:41:55,350 --> 01:41:51,920
was pretty dramatic

2644
01:41:58,629 --> 01:41:55,360
and uh ever since then i've just had

2645
01:42:01,270 --> 01:41:58,639
i have had no good feeling about it

2646
01:42:04,149 --> 01:42:01,280
whatsoever and for whatever reason

2647
01:42:06,390 --> 01:42:04,159
it seems that whenever i get near one i

2648
01:42:07,830 --> 01:42:06,400
start getting a read on it somehow and i

2649
01:42:11,270 --> 01:42:07,840
don't know what it is

2650
01:42:11,910 --> 01:42:11,280
it's um most of the time it's not good

2651
01:42:14,390 --> 01:42:11,920
and it just

2652
01:42:15,669 --> 01:42:14,400
it just kind of makes me want to just

2653
01:42:17,510 --> 01:42:15,679
push away from it

2654
01:42:18,709 --> 01:42:17,520
so i don't know i don't know if that's

2655
01:42:22,870 --> 01:42:18,719
an unconscious

2656
01:42:27,189 --> 01:42:22,880
reaction to it or whatever but uh

2657
01:42:29,910 --> 01:42:27,199
it's just that you know he stuck with me

2658
01:42:31,189 --> 01:42:29,920
well what was your experience this was

2659
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:31,199
back in the 70s

2660
01:42:36,070 --> 01:42:34,800
yeah i was at a party uh in high school

2661
01:42:39,669 --> 01:42:36,080
and there was a bunch of

2662
01:42:41,350 --> 01:42:39,679
uh there was a bunch of us at this

2663
01:42:42,709 --> 01:42:41,360
friend of this house a friend of mine we

2664
01:42:46,229 --> 01:42:42,719
were in the basement

2665
01:42:49,350 --> 01:42:47,750
i was sitting on the silver talking to

2666
01:42:53,350 --> 01:42:49,360
this girl and right in front of us

2667
01:42:55,189 --> 01:42:53,360
on on uh a small coffee table

2668
01:42:57,669 --> 01:42:55,199
that somebody had a ouija board there so

2669
01:43:00,390 --> 01:42:57,679
there was a bunch of them sitting around

2670
01:43:01,270 --> 01:43:00,400
uh drinking i'll admit we were drinking

2671
01:43:03,109 --> 01:43:01,280
beer and

2672
01:43:05,350 --> 01:43:03,119
it was uh they were playing with the

2673
01:43:08,790 --> 01:43:05,360
ouija board

2674
01:43:11,270 --> 01:43:08,800
and i kept watching

2675
01:43:12,950 --> 01:43:11,280
this guy that was across the table from

2676
01:43:14,709 --> 01:43:12,960
me

2677
01:43:16,229 --> 01:43:14,719
watching this girl that was sitting in

2678
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:16,239
front of me he was giving her all kinds

2679
01:43:20,390 --> 01:43:18,080
of crazy looks

2680
01:43:22,870 --> 01:43:20,400
and uh she started complaining that

2681
01:43:24,950 --> 01:43:22,880
somebody had grabbed her breast

2682
01:43:26,790 --> 01:43:24,960
but nobody was doing it i mean and

2683
01:43:27,830 --> 01:43:26,800
somebody had rubbed their back or

2684
01:43:30,870 --> 01:43:27,840
something

2685
01:43:32,550 --> 01:43:30,880
and she was really freaked out i mean

2686
01:43:34,390 --> 01:43:32,560
something you know something that had to

2687
01:43:36,310 --> 01:43:34,400
happen to her and this guy's

2688
01:43:38,070 --> 01:43:36,320
sitting there across the way looking at

2689
01:43:41,590 --> 01:43:38,080
her giving these

2690
01:43:43,109 --> 01:43:41,600
these smirking smiles and i was looking

2691
01:43:45,750 --> 01:43:43,119
right at him

2692
01:43:46,390 --> 01:43:45,760
and in my mind i just told him to stop

2693
01:43:49,270 --> 01:43:46,400
it

2694
01:43:51,189 --> 01:43:49,280
and when that happened he shot a glance

2695
01:43:52,950 --> 01:43:51,199
at me

2696
01:43:54,310 --> 01:43:52,960
look i mean it was like the devil

2697
01:43:59,030 --> 01:43:54,320
himself looking at me

2698
01:44:01,510 --> 01:43:59,040
he got up and started running towards me

2699
01:44:03,030 --> 01:44:01,520
and i grabbed him i kind of moved away

2700
01:44:04,830 --> 01:44:03,040
and grabbed him and pulled him down on

2701
01:44:07,590 --> 01:44:04,840
the sofa

2702
01:44:08,950 --> 01:44:07,600
and me and another guy another guy came

2703
01:44:11,830 --> 01:44:08,960
to my aid we held him down

2704
01:44:13,669 --> 01:44:11,840
he didn't have to hold him down long he

2705
01:44:15,830 --> 01:44:13,679
snapped out of it

2706
01:44:17,030 --> 01:44:15,840
and he apologized and everything he said

2707
01:44:20,550 --> 01:44:17,040
he didn't know what

2708
01:44:22,390 --> 01:44:20,560
came of it and

2709
01:44:24,149 --> 01:44:22,400
we were there i don't know we were

2710
01:44:26,629 --> 01:44:24,159
sitting there for a couple minutes

2711
01:44:28,390 --> 01:44:26,639
and all of a sudden the girl who said

2712
01:44:31,270 --> 01:44:28,400
she was grabbed

2713
01:44:32,709 --> 01:44:31,280
screamed and was pointing towards the

2714
01:44:35,669 --> 01:44:32,719
plant [\h__\h] which was

2715
01:44:36,310 --> 01:44:35,679
about two or three foot hovering two or

2716
01:44:40,390 --> 01:44:36,320
three foot

2717
01:44:43,590 --> 01:44:40,400
above the ouija board in the air and

2718
01:44:45,510 --> 01:44:43,600
that free freestanding in the air and

2719
01:44:47,750 --> 01:44:45,520
everybody flipped out they all ran

2720
01:44:50,550 --> 01:44:47,760
toward the other side of the uh

2721
01:44:51,910 --> 01:44:50,560
the other side of the uh the basement by

2722
01:44:53,910 --> 01:44:51,920
the bar

2723
01:44:55,669 --> 01:44:53,920
i was standing here a little closer to i

2724
01:44:56,709 --> 01:44:55,679
wanted i want to see what was going on

2725
01:44:58,870 --> 01:44:56,719
this thing was

2726
01:44:59,910 --> 01:44:58,880
just hovering this planchet was just

2727
01:45:02,070 --> 01:44:59,920
hovering

2728
01:45:03,430 --> 01:45:02,080
about two or three feet above the board

2729
01:45:06,149 --> 01:45:03,440
and all of a sudden

2730
01:45:06,950 --> 01:45:06,159
it slammed down on the board with such a

2731
01:45:09,830 --> 01:45:06,960
force

2732
01:45:12,149 --> 01:45:09,840
that it blew all the bottles and glasses

2733
01:45:15,430 --> 01:45:12,159
off the table

2734
01:45:16,550 --> 01:45:15,440
and broke the blanchette oh yeah i mean

2735
01:45:18,390 --> 01:45:16,560
you had to say and

2736
01:45:19,990 --> 01:45:18,400
everybody started running up the stairs

2737
01:45:22,070 --> 01:45:20,000
out the door

2738
01:45:23,270 --> 01:45:22,080
uh it was the damnedest thing i've ever

2739
01:45:25,189 --> 01:45:23,280
experienced

2740
01:45:27,430 --> 01:45:25,199
as far as any type of you know something

2741
01:45:31,030 --> 01:45:27,440
like that but you know

2742
01:45:34,310 --> 01:45:31,040
it just happened that the girl

2743
01:45:38,550 --> 01:45:34,320
now when i found out later the girl

2744
01:45:41,350 --> 01:45:38,560
had died or died in an attack on a rape

2745
01:45:42,870 --> 01:45:41,360
or whatever i don't know the extent but

2746
01:45:46,310 --> 01:45:42,880
not many years later

2747
01:45:49,109 --> 01:45:46,320
in texas and uh

2748
01:45:49,910 --> 01:45:49,119
there was the other guy not that guy who

2749
01:45:52,470 --> 01:45:49,920
attacked me

2750
01:45:53,430 --> 01:45:52,480
but somebody else swore to god that he

2751
01:45:56,790 --> 01:45:53,440
he had been

2752
01:45:59,510 --> 01:45:56,800
possessed for years after that happened

2753
01:46:01,990 --> 01:45:59,520
so i don't know how true all that is but

2754
01:46:04,709 --> 01:46:02,000
i saw this thing

2755
01:46:05,109 --> 01:46:04,719
react the way it did i have no idea what

2756
01:46:07,590 --> 01:46:05,119
it was

2757
01:46:08,390 --> 01:46:07,600
amazing uh first of all for the

2758
01:46:12,149 --> 01:46:08,400
planchette

2759
01:46:12,709 --> 01:46:12,159
to be able to levitate that much that

2760
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:12,719
high

2761
01:46:18,709 --> 01:46:16,400
and sustained you know not just like a

2762
01:46:20,790 --> 01:46:18,719
quick up and down

2763
01:46:23,669 --> 01:46:20,800
and to be witnessed by so many people

2764
01:46:26,229 --> 01:46:23,679
that's an extraordinary story there

2765
01:46:30,950 --> 01:46:26,239
i have had other cases that have similar

2766
01:46:34,629 --> 01:46:33,109
yeah yeah that's that's what happened

2767
01:46:37,189 --> 01:46:34,639
it's you know i didn't really like to

2768
01:46:39,510 --> 01:46:37,199
talk a whole lot about it but it's uh

2769
01:46:40,870 --> 01:46:39,520
it's always stuck of mix i i feel that

2770
01:46:43,189 --> 01:46:40,880
that has a big

2771
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:43,199
i mean a large base as to why i have

2772
01:46:47,270 --> 01:46:44,159
this infinity

2773
01:46:50,550 --> 01:46:47,280
against ouija boards so

2774
01:46:53,189 --> 01:46:50,560
i don't know well um

2775
01:46:54,629 --> 01:46:53,199
sometimes when people have like just one

2776
01:46:58,390 --> 01:46:54,639
exposure like that

2777
01:47:01,750 --> 01:46:58,400
and it it turns freaky

2778
01:47:02,950 --> 01:47:01,760
uh yeah ever after that and people do

2779
01:47:06,550 --> 01:47:02,960
not want to touch it

2780
01:47:08,310 --> 01:47:06,560
i uh i've interviewed people where

2781
01:47:10,390 --> 01:47:08,320
they've never used the board before and

2782
01:47:12,149 --> 01:47:10,400
then they encounter it often at a party

2783
01:47:14,950 --> 01:47:12,159
situation like that

2784
01:47:15,990 --> 01:47:14,960
something weird happens and then that's

2785
01:47:23,030 --> 01:47:16,000
it

2786
01:47:25,350 --> 01:47:23,040
you know darren evans who uh he's had

2787
01:47:27,189 --> 01:47:25,360
his story out for some time now about

2788
01:47:30,149 --> 01:47:27,199
the entity zozo

2789
01:47:30,870 --> 01:47:30,159
uh who contacted him on the ouija board

2790
01:47:33,910 --> 01:47:30,880
and then

2791
01:47:36,790 --> 01:47:33,920
was able to latch on to him and

2792
01:47:38,550 --> 01:47:36,800
and he uh follow him around and his

2793
01:47:41,350 --> 01:47:38,560
health deteriorated

2794
01:47:44,709 --> 01:47:41,360
he had haunting phenomena in his home

2795
01:47:48,830 --> 01:47:44,719
things acting out against his family

2796
01:47:52,950 --> 01:47:48,840
it got to be a terrible case

2797
01:47:55,830 --> 01:47:52,960
um in um ouija gone wild which is

2798
01:47:57,430 --> 01:47:55,840
the book that rick fisher and i did and

2799
01:47:59,430 --> 01:47:57,440
you take a stance in the book that the

2800
01:48:03,430 --> 01:47:59,440
board itself is neutral

2801
01:48:06,470 --> 01:48:03,440
um but nonetheless uh there

2802
01:48:07,350 --> 01:48:06,480
are more freaky stories about the ouija

2803
01:48:10,550 --> 01:48:07,360
than there are

2804
01:48:13,590 --> 01:48:10,560
other kinds of um spirit

2805
01:48:17,109 --> 01:48:13,600
communication interaction tools

2806
01:48:20,229 --> 01:48:17,119
so are there

2807
01:48:22,550 --> 01:48:20,239
my speculation is that there's something

2808
01:48:25,830 --> 01:48:22,560
about how it opens people up

2809
01:48:27,430 --> 01:48:25,840
and the way uh spirits can communicate

2810
01:48:29,510 --> 01:48:27,440
because you're using the body in a very

2811
01:48:32,790 --> 01:48:29,520
dramatic way

2812
01:48:35,830 --> 01:48:32,800
that this makes it easier for certain

2813
01:48:37,189 --> 01:48:35,840
low-level opportunistic entities who may

2814
01:48:40,229 --> 01:48:37,199
even hang around

2815
01:48:41,510 --> 01:48:40,239
you know the energetics of this this

2816
01:48:44,830 --> 01:48:41,520
sort of thing

2817
01:48:46,870 --> 01:48:44,840
these devices are often used by young

2818
01:48:49,830 --> 01:48:46,880
people um

2819
01:48:51,030 --> 01:48:49,840
who are wanting to be entertained or you

2820
01:48:52,470 --> 01:48:51,040
know like they've been drinking

2821
01:48:54,709 --> 01:48:52,480
want to have a good time or even a

2822
01:48:56,550 --> 01:48:54,719
thrill but still

2823
01:48:57,830 --> 01:48:56,560
it that doesn't explain away all of

2824
01:49:01,189 --> 01:48:57,840
these

2825
01:49:01,590 --> 01:49:01,199
stories the story that we we open up the

2826
01:49:04,470 --> 01:49:01,600
book

2827
01:49:05,669 --> 01:49:04,480
with involves a young woman who became

2828
01:49:07,910 --> 01:49:05,679
fascinated

2829
01:49:08,950 --> 01:49:07,920
by the ouija board got lots of results

2830
01:49:11,350 --> 01:49:08,960
with it

2831
01:49:12,870 --> 01:49:11,360
with friends and then they got bored but

2832
01:49:14,950 --> 01:49:12,880
she was so obsessed

2833
01:49:16,550 --> 01:49:14,960
with it that she started using it by

2834
01:49:19,270 --> 01:49:16,560
herself and

2835
01:49:20,470 --> 01:49:19,280
the the entity that was communicating

2836
01:49:23,109 --> 01:49:20,480
with her

2837
01:49:24,950 --> 01:49:23,119
did the predictable darker and darker

2838
01:49:29,109 --> 01:49:24,960
turn

2839
01:49:32,229 --> 01:49:29,119
and sexually suggestive and

2840
01:49:33,589 --> 01:49:32,239
threatening messages and

2841
01:49:35,669 --> 01:49:33,599
she would have episodes where the

2842
01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:35,679
planchette would fly off the board and

2843
01:49:45,510 --> 01:49:42,400
start snaking up her leg

2844
01:49:47,430 --> 01:49:45,520
wow that's incredible well guys

2845
01:49:50,709 --> 01:49:47,440
we've been jaw jacking here for an hour

2846
01:49:52,709 --> 01:49:50,719
and six minutes and we're out of time

2847
01:49:54,149 --> 01:49:52,719
all this great information you guys been

2848
01:49:57,030 --> 01:49:54,159
putting out there with the tales of

2849
01:49:57,750 --> 01:49:57,040
ouija board and lawn getting chased by

2850
01:50:00,790 --> 01:49:57,760
uh

2851
01:50:02,550 --> 01:50:00,800
possessed men and it's

2852
01:50:04,870 --> 01:50:02,560
it's rosemary it's always fun to have

2853
01:50:07,350 --> 01:50:04,880
you on the program

2854
01:50:09,510 --> 01:50:07,360
well it's a great sean and i sure

2855
01:50:12,790 --> 01:50:09,520
appreciate talking

2856
01:50:14,470 --> 01:50:12,800
to both of you and i hope to share it

2857
01:50:16,149 --> 01:50:14,480
again sometime soon

2858
01:50:17,830 --> 01:50:16,159
most definitely you're always welcome on

2859
01:50:19,830 --> 01:50:17,840
our program rosemary

2860
01:50:22,790 --> 01:50:19,840
any final thoughts you got to tell us

2861
01:50:25,910 --> 01:50:22,800
about your new radio show rosemary

2862
01:50:30,709 --> 01:50:25,920
um i've postponed developing it

2863
01:50:33,990 --> 01:50:30,719
pending uh i'm rethinking my format

2864
01:50:35,189 --> 01:50:34,000
and um i don't have the time to do a

2865
01:50:37,830 --> 01:50:35,199
weekly show

2866
01:50:40,629 --> 01:50:37,840
right so i'm probably going to i well no

2867
01:50:42,950 --> 01:50:40,639
i am going to do something once a month

2868
01:50:44,790 --> 01:50:42,960
and um i was going to have a certain

2869
01:50:46,390 --> 01:50:44,800
format and approach and then i started

2870
01:50:49,750 --> 01:50:46,400
rethinking that

2871
01:50:53,510 --> 01:50:49,760
and um but i'm probably

2872
01:50:54,470 --> 01:50:53,520
going to do like you is to pre-record

2873
01:50:58,470 --> 01:50:54,480
and then

2874
01:51:01,830 --> 01:50:58,480
um post it

2875
01:51:05,270 --> 01:51:01,840
because tying me down to a live schedule

2876
01:51:07,510 --> 01:51:05,280
even once a month to be problematic but

2877
01:51:09,669 --> 01:51:07,520
what i want to do with this show and i'm

2878
01:51:13,109 --> 01:51:09,679
calling it strange dimensions radio

2879
01:51:13,669 --> 01:51:13,119
i was going to debut it uh last month

2880
01:51:16,629 --> 01:51:13,679
and then

2881
01:51:18,709 --> 01:51:16,639
the logistics just started getting away

2882
01:51:23,430 --> 01:51:18,719
from me i thought i really need to

2883
01:51:26,550 --> 01:51:23,440
to do more planning here i i want to

2884
01:51:29,510 --> 01:51:26,560
have different kinds of shows and

2885
01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:29,520
some of them are going to focus on

2886
01:51:35,669 --> 01:51:32,320
leading investigators and researchers

2887
01:51:38,950 --> 01:51:35,679
talking about some of their um

2888
01:51:41,510 --> 01:51:38,960
stranger cases or lesser known aspects

2889
01:51:45,030 --> 01:51:41,520
of their work and their lives

2890
01:51:47,350 --> 01:51:45,040
i want to go way below the surface

2891
01:51:48,310 --> 01:51:47,360
and dig out some some really interesting

2892
01:51:51,109 --> 01:51:48,320
things

2893
01:51:51,990 --> 01:51:51,119
about what what goes on out there in the

2894
01:51:55,270 --> 01:51:52,000
paranormal

2895
01:51:59,109 --> 01:51:55,280
so strange dimensions radio

2896
01:52:00,629 --> 01:51:59,119
uh i'm now looking at a january 2015

2897
01:52:02,229 --> 01:52:00,639
debut for it that'll give me a little

2898
01:52:04,709 --> 01:52:02,239
more time to

2899
01:52:05,910 --> 01:52:04,719
get all my ducks lying my delivery ducks

2900
01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:05,920
lined up

2901
01:52:11,830 --> 01:52:09,199
and start

2902
01:52:12,550 --> 01:52:11,840
producing but i've been asked for a long

2903
01:52:15,589 --> 01:52:12,560
time

2904
01:52:16,390 --> 01:52:15,599
yeah when i'm going to do something so

2905
01:52:19,589 --> 01:52:16,400
it

2906
01:52:21,750 --> 01:52:19,599
seemed like you know the time is right

2907
01:52:24,629 --> 01:52:21,760
now to do it

2908
01:52:26,550 --> 01:52:24,639
well very good and i i encourage

2909
01:52:29,589 --> 01:52:26,560
everyone to get

2910
01:52:30,310 --> 01:52:29,599
rosemary's monthly newsletter strange

2911
01:52:32,870 --> 01:52:30,320
dimensions

2912
01:52:33,589 --> 01:52:32,880
very good it's got a lot of cool stuff

2913
01:52:37,270 --> 01:52:33,599
in there

2914
01:52:38,950 --> 01:52:37,280
i look at it every month um

2915
01:52:40,390 --> 01:52:38,960
can you tell everyone how to get that

2916
01:52:43,430 --> 01:52:40,400
rosemary

2917
01:52:45,510 --> 01:52:43,440
yes you can go on my home page of my

2918
01:52:48,790 --> 01:52:45,520
website visionaryliving.com

2919
01:52:49,589 --> 01:52:48,800
and sign up there and i also keep sign

2920
01:52:52,390 --> 01:52:49,599
up sheets

2921
01:52:52,990 --> 01:52:52,400
at my events you can also drop me an

2922
01:52:56,550 --> 01:52:53,000
email

2923
01:52:58,149 --> 01:52:56,560
regularly gmail.com the website's the

2924
01:53:00,870 --> 01:52:58,159
easiest way and

2925
01:53:03,990 --> 01:53:00,880
lawn coming from you with your fabulous

2926
01:53:06,629 --> 01:53:04,000
phantoms and monsters

2927
01:53:08,149 --> 01:53:06,639
blog that's quite a compliment i really

2928
01:53:09,589 --> 01:53:08,159
appreciate it i don't know how you

2929
01:53:12,870 --> 01:53:09,599
managed to do phantom

2930
01:53:14,550 --> 01:53:12,880
phantoms and monsters

2931
01:53:16,229 --> 01:53:14,560
you know putting something out just

2932
01:53:19,910 --> 01:53:16,239
about every day there it's

2933
01:53:22,070 --> 01:53:19,920
that too is a wonderful compilation

2934
01:53:23,750 --> 01:53:22,080
i appreciate that uh i don't know how i

2935
01:53:27,030 --> 01:53:23,760
do it here to be honest with you

2936
01:53:27,669 --> 01:53:27,040
but i get it done but no thanks a lot

2937
01:53:29,430 --> 01:53:27,679
now and

2938
01:53:31,189 --> 01:53:29,440
really your newsletter is great it's got

2939
01:53:34,709 --> 01:53:31,199
a lot of cool stuff in there

2940
01:53:35,750 --> 01:53:34,719
and i've i've used some of it uh in some

2941
01:53:39,589 --> 01:53:35,760
of the things i do

2942
01:53:41,589 --> 01:53:39,599
and uh i look forward to it every month

2943
01:53:43,109 --> 01:53:41,599
well thank you that's the the best

2944
01:53:44,870 --> 01:53:43,119
compliment uh

2945
01:53:46,310 --> 01:53:44,880
you can make to it is is that it's

2946
01:53:48,950 --> 01:53:46,320
usable and

2947
01:53:50,550 --> 01:53:48,960
uh i i try and cover um you know the

2948
01:53:51,430 --> 01:53:50,560
different things that i get involved

2949
01:53:55,430 --> 01:53:51,440
with

2950
01:53:56,709 --> 01:53:55,440
um and i i almost warn people sometimes

2951
01:53:58,550 --> 01:53:56,719
you know that um

2952
01:54:00,709 --> 01:53:58,560
well you might be interested in dreams

2953
01:54:03,510 --> 01:54:00,719
but my newsletter you know might cover

2954
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:03,520
werewolves sometimes it's into

2955
01:54:07,030 --> 01:54:04,690
everything

2956
01:54:09,589 --> 01:54:07,040
[Music]

2957
01:54:10,709 --> 01:54:09,599
well i thanks again for being on with us

2958
01:54:13,109 --> 01:54:10,719
rosemary definitely

2959
01:54:13,750 --> 01:54:13,119
i love talking to you every time every

2960
01:54:17,109 --> 01:54:13,760
and i i

2961
01:54:19,109 --> 01:54:17,119
i i'm gonna go ahead and uh

2962
01:54:21,350 --> 01:54:19,119
uh change the mysteries of the unknown

2963
01:54:23,109 --> 01:54:21,360
to the lovely mistress of the unknown

2964
01:54:24,950 --> 01:54:23,119
so you can put that you can put that

2965
01:54:28,070 --> 01:54:24,960
moniker up there now

2966
01:54:30,229 --> 01:54:28,080
uh it's always great to have you with us

2967
01:54:31,109 --> 01:54:30,239
well thank you lon and sean great

2968
01:54:34,070 --> 01:54:31,119
talking with you

2969
01:54:34,790 --> 01:54:34,080
in this halloween month and have a good

2970
01:54:39,629 --> 01:54:34,800
one

2971
01:54:42,709 --> 01:54:39,639
you too rosemary folks rosemary ellen

2972
01:54:44,790 --> 01:54:42,719
visionaryliving.com correct lawn yes

2973
01:54:46,550 --> 01:54:44,800
all right folks you've been listening to

2974
01:54:49,270 --> 01:54:46,560
arcane radio sean fork or launch